Jeff, my reply wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. Honestly, IMO if you don't know the exact time and shoot a deer 2 minutes after the designated shooting time because you've been watching and waiting for the shot for quite some time and got wrapped up in the moment I've got no problem with that. The GW might, but I don't. On the other hand, if you know it's past shooting light and you can still see so you stay in your stand and say "F--- the shooting time I can still see so it's ethical" I've got a problem with that. Again JMHO.
Understood. I suppose.......... how "some" people view what I do (ethics-wise) is important to me (count yourself in that group). I can look you straight in the eye and say I've never knowingly taken an illegal shot......and I can also tell you I'm looking for no advantage. I don't see this situation that way. Ethical shot - take it - regardless of legal time. Unethical shot - Pass - regardless of legal time. It's that simple. I'm also smart enough to know that a shot in the DARK (for the 'snow on the ground enthusiasts) would be KNOWINGLY taking an illegal shot. I won't go there. Again....I'm looking at the intent of the law. And, I'm sure (in my heart) I'm working within that.
I'm willing to bet this happens more than one would think after reading some of these posts! Bry, in both scenarios you listed, whats the difference!
Joe.... Are you OK with me taking a shot in the dark....as long as it's withing legal shooting times? Why? Or, why not? Are you OK with me taking a shot in plenty of light.....if it's taken 2 minutes after legal shooting light? Does "unethical" and "illegal" walk the same path? In other words.....is everything "illegal"....."unethical" (in your eyes)? No wrong answers.
Legally, there is no difference. One guy didn't know he had broken the law, which doesn't make it right. The other knows and doesn't care. In either case the law was broken but one individual has regard for the law and made a mistake, the other individual has no regard for the law.
If you think you can make the shot and its legal, take it. Why? because its legal and you think you can make it. Jeff, the shooting should be done legally, plain and simple, the hunter is responsible for knowing and following the game laws, period, this is taught to kids and to new hunters during the hunters education class. I really can't believe that someone actually argues against this! "In other words.....is everything "illegal"....."unethical" (in your eyes)?" Most likely. I wondering how many guys would be wearing and looking at there watch if there was a GW sitting 150 yards away watching your hunt thru a binocular, would you still take that after hours shot?? I'm sure some WOULD win that darwin award!
Legal shot- take it- as long as it's ethical Illegal shot- Pass- regardless of ethical or not It's that simple.
ok........ You're telling me (as a snow enthusiast) that a deer standing in front of me at 10 yards with a full moon in an open field with snow on the ground isn't an easy/"ethical" shot? I can see its' lungs clear as day. So back to your ethical shot - take it- regardless of time.... what do you suggest I do? Seems like a pretty ethical shot to me. 99.9% sure if I let an arrow fly the deer is dead.
Joe, Like it or not that is human nature. Your never going to get away from peoples feelings when they have an emotional involvement. In other words, human nature will always cause what is right and wrong bases on your involvement. Just look how parents view their kids for proof.
Sorry it isn't that black or white (proved by the length of this thread). In a perfect world it would be, but this is not a perfect world.
Respectfully, A. I'm dealing with reality. Not fantasy world. B. Talking about a "holy'r than thou" attitude.
I find it HUMOROUS that you can be on a high horse about one but not another. YOU can cast the first stone when YOU start driving the speed limit and stopping completely at stop signs. A law is a law, or is it??? You can throw all the criticism around you want, but I'll still sleep just fine. Remember ETHICS are a personal thing, and just because mine or a few others may not match yours don't mean you're right and we're wrong and vice versa. I respect your PERSONAL ethics, you've drawn your line in the sand, as have I, and nothing I'm gonna say is gonna change you, and nothing you say is gonna change me. If I can't see I don't shoot, plain and simple. MANY times I'm on my way out of the woods while there is still time "in season" , because I know I'm not capable of making an ethical shot. Likewise, if I were to have been hunting here in OH tonight, I'd have likely stayed a little late as I'm sure I could still see a little past LEGAL time. Does that make me a poacher??? No more than your speeding makes YOU a common criminal. At least I can admit that I'll bend the rules a little. I suspect if you had an opportunity at a 200" buck 2 minutes past shooting light on a snowy night where you could see PERFECTLY, you'd take that shot, and maybe not sleep well but still be happy to have the deer!!!! I KNOW I would, if I felt confident in the shot, I'm not gonna tell anyone any different, because I know I would. At the same time, if it was raining/snowing, and visibility was poor and I couldn't see, even with 15minutes of shooting light left, I'm not taking the shot, PERIOD!!! He'd have my "CONGRATS!!!" As that was his decision, if he felt it was an ethical shot, and made it, and killed the buck I was after, then so be it. I ain't MY deer, it's "GOD'S." (I say this because I hate hearing people say the STATE owns the animals, GOD owns the animals, and he put them here for us to use.... But again, if I was in my stand still, then you know if he didn't shoot it..... I WOULD HAVE!!!! :D
GF ... how is there a holier than thou attituded ... I dont get it ... its the law ... plain and simple ... it realy IS black and white ......
Yeah well I am defiantly not a "rules are rules" type guy. I still think common sense, good judgment and doing the right thing overrides rules in most cases. This is a complicated topic (even though some agure it's not). I still go back to what Jeff said and you have to look at the intent of the rules. That is the bottom line for me.
Doug ... God says to obey EVERY ordinance of man FOR THE LORD'S SAKE .... so you are breaking HIS rules ...yes?
The "holy'r than thou" attitude comes from "this country is in trouble" because I feel this topic isn't "black or white". I took offense to that to be honest. If it was black or white, this topic would of went 1 page and would died. Not so apparently. There have been excellent points on both sides. Honestly, I am still trying to decide my final verdict because of the valid points on both sides.
My point is it SHOULD be black and white .. we should repect the game laws .. period ... Doves aren't legal in NY, yet there are TONS of them flying around .. should I kill them while rabbit and pheasant hunting because I feel the law in NY is wrong? What stops all of us from hunting off season, is what should stop use from shooting an animal before or after legal shooting hours
Don't feel so special, I'm not trying to change you in the least bit, so don't get your undies in a bunch! Nice try on the 200" deer though, it's not that big of a deal to me..... it would mean absolutely NOTHING to me if I killed it illegally, ANY deer for that matter! Good luck.....
