I agree. I've spent a lot of hours playing with bare shafts in the past only to get frustrated. I've since gone back to my normal tuning methods and can shoot fixed heads and field points to the same spot out to 60 yards. I'd say its pretty good and tuned. ;-)
That's more than you need for hunting. My first compound bow; I had the rest(whisker biscuit) installed, the tech at the shop recommended arrows for my set-up, and, that was it. Up until this point, I had no experience with compound bows. I had been shooting recurves since I was a young lad, but, that was the extent of my archery experience. I shot the heck out of that bow. With no coaching on form, proper release, grip, etc, etc, I was out-shooting friends of mine who had been shooting for many years, within my first summer of shooting, out to 60yards. I killed 23? deer with that bow, 36yards being my furthest shot(on my first archery buck) at the time !! When I purchased my General, I still had not had any real archery coaching. I was still a wrist release shooter, and, a trigger puncher. My grip, looking back now through skilled eyes, was hilarious. I purchased all high end, quality accessories, for this bow. At this point, I had gotten extremely good with a compound(still, with horrible form). I had the rest installed, might have had it shot through paper/shot it through, but, I can't recall, for sure. I purchased quality arrows, and, went on my way. The first day of sighting in my pins, I shot this group at about 55 yards, which, was a very good group for me, at the time. No broadhead tuning, no walk back tuning, no bareshaft tuning, no anything but sighting in...6 arrows, that I could wrap my hand around and touch my index finger and thumb, together. Now, I understand WHY people feel the need to tune their bows and get the most performance out of them, but, I find it funny that a good majority of those people who say you HAVE to do this and HAVE to do that, and spend countless hours tuning, I can out shoot. haha.
Which proves nothing. Even a seriously out of tune bow will shoot arrows to the same point of impact if the shooter's form is exactly the same from shot to shot. The issues are whether or not the bow is maximally forgiving of form errors (shot to shot deviations in form), and whether the arrows are striking with the highest possible efficiency (force directly behind the point). As with everything, some are satisfied with less than optimal performance, and that's fine. Others seek perfection and to attain that end is a little more involved.
I know this. This is exactly my point. It does not NEED to be done, and, a lot of hunters have other things to spend their time on, that are more important to them. I do more by way of tuning than most people that I know, but, I could do more. Will I ? Probably not. The roll reverses when it comes to motocross. I spend tens-of thousands of dollars on my bikes. From suspension work, motor work, to cosmetic additions. Do I HAVE to do all of it in order to win races ? Nope. Are there other racers out there who are faster than me with less time and money put into their race bikes ? Absolutely. It comes down to WANT, not HAVE. A stock bike can win a race, and, an out of tune bow can kill a deer.
However, this has NOTHING to do with the OP's original post and questions related to issues he was having with bare shaft tuning. I don't care for paper tuning or walk-back tuning but I won't jump in on a post about them and say that bow tuning is unnecessary or overzealous. The end goal is the same, we all want to be happy with the way our equipment shoots, and the way we shoot it. We all have our own means of achieving what we want. Those of us with a lot of experience just like to save others some of the headaches we suffered in gaining that experience. That's the track I see this post should be on.
Exactly. I see this in paper tune threads all the time. A person wants help with paper tuning and the first five posts don't say anything but that paper tuning is a waste of time. Fortunately, in those threads, you usually don't see a bunch of misinformation posted to back up their opinion.
Forgiveness is something I always want to maximize in my setups. This is why I want to learn more and get better at all aspects of tuning. Many around here, consider me a tuning freak. I'm always trying to perfect my rig. I think I do a pretty good job as it is and can usually get the end result I'm looking for. It does take time, something thats a premium these days with two little ones running around the house. But over the course of the off season, I usually can get things where I want them. But as I said, it never hurts to improve and learn more.
I agree, and, understand. It's my view, but, I feel that it is obvious; a lot of guys on here seem to get bashed for not going to great lengths with their tuning. It's as if one is looked down on for failure to exhaust all tuning efforts. A simple suggestion, is fine. I think people will read some of these pro-tuning posts, and, feel intimidated, start to lack confidence in their set-ups, and, ultimately, become frustrated. I'm simply stating that it does NOT need to be done. I agree, a properly tuned set-up will show better performance, all around, but, that's not the point I was looking to make. Hell, I bareshaft tune! I see this "misinformation" all of the time, in my sport. It's like the plaque. We constantly have guys coming in to my buddies repair/race/suspension shop telling US what their "buddy whos been racing for x number of years said", like he was Mr. know it all. We laugh, then, correct their misguided information. However, there is misinformation, then, there is personal experiences, which, may not be totally correct, but, a true experience of the individual whos stating them. Can't knock a guy for sharing that.. Now that we've hi-jacked this thread and we've all made out points, back to the original questions. My apologies for side-tracking your thread, bro !! best of luck,.
What doesn't need to be done? We're not talking about flingin' FP's here. What doesn't need to be done, when tuning BH's?
We're not talking about broadheads. We're talking about bareshaft tuning with FPs, which, does not need to be done. Hell, I know some people that dont even broadhead tune. They simply sight in with their broadheads and then put their bow away.
If you're bareshaft tuning to shoot FP's, I'd agree that it can be an unnecessary step (if your POI is consistent). I don't go through the process of bareshaft tuning to try and perfect FP tipped arrow flight, though (as my end-game). It's a pre-cursor to what I'm about to put on the pointy end.
Well I actually did try this to improve my scores in my 3d league. I thought that shooting the most forgiving bow would lead to more 10's. It will be nice though come next fall to be shooting a well tuned bow. I have came to a spot where I think it is as close as it is going to be. I am slaping shafts together at 12 yards which is as far as I can shoot in my basement. I will shoot again at 20 next time I get the chance. My solution was that I was over correcting and trusting what I thought was true center based off of eyeballing it and not trusting what the bareshaft was telling me. This was not an easy task for me but I hope it pays off.
IMO, you have this process backwards. I'd set center shot, then adjust my arrow/DW. I'd never use my arrow reactions to attempt to set center shot. You're not achieving anything substantive, going that route.
If my arrows that are flecthed and non fletched are hitting in the same spot at 10, 20, and 30 yards and my rest is not in true center shot would this still not be considered a tuned bow? This is a hypothetical question, I am not claiming to have achieved this. Second my tools for archery are limited. I am open for suggestions for setting center shot. By limited I basically have allen wrenches.
I bareshaft tune in order to solve any spine issues. So, I always use field points, for consistency, and, mostly, because I dont want to ruin expensive, high end broadheads. I'm back to shooting an expandable that impacts exactly where my FPs do, so I dont have to do any tuning for that purpose. However, when my bow is tuned to where I like it, even my COC(Rocky Mountain Warriors) are hitting with FPs. Agreed ! I like to get my center shot centered with the true center of the bow, then, adjust other things like tip weight , DW, and arrow length, to get my spine as perfect as I wish to have it.
I bareshaft tune in order to solve any spine issues. What I'm saying is.....if you're not bareshaft tuning....as a precursor for when you'll be shooting BH's, this process IS a moot point (to an extent). Spine issues (with a compound bow) are really a non-issue (as far as POI, only!), IF all you're gonna be shooting is FP's and mechanicals. Trust me....lol. Penetration is where the wrong spine will kill you. So, I always use field points, for consistency, and, mostly, because I dont want to ruin expensive, high end broadheads. Please don't ever try bareshaft tuning with BH's.
What I'm looking for, from bareshaft tuning, is for any issues with arrow flight due to improper spine. I take the data I collect from this tuning, and, make adjustments to arrow length, DW, tip weight, etc. For example, I was getting a right impact on my bareshafts, as oppossed to my finished arrows. My rest is dead center, perfect. So, I turned my DW down a few pounds, and shortened my arrows until I achieved the bareshaft performance I desired. I did this in order to obtain the most straight and true arrow flight and marriage between my arrow and bow; what I believe is the purpose behind bareshaft tuning. A point you've just made, PENETRATION, is a valid one. An arrow that's spine correctly, flies correctly(straight and true, for the most part) which will deliver better penetration because a straight "more or less" arrow is impacting the target, which will result in less KE lost, when compared to an arrow that's impacting it's target "not straight". Is this what you meant when you mentioned penetration ?
Exactly. This will ensure optimal penetration.......the purpose of bareshaft tuning (in the end). That's why I found it strange, when you said it (Bareshaft tuning) wasn't that important.
