I dont get too much into the tuning technicalities with my hunting bows, so forgive my ignorance. Do you start by bare-shaft tuning and then broadhead tune ? Let's say, you bare shaft tune. You get your rest where it's gotta be to smack fletched arrows and bare-shafts together..You adjust your sight accordingly. Then, you start flinging some broadheads and they're off. Let's say that you're spine and all is perfectly fine, but you're using a broadhead that's catching some lift. What's the proper step ? Do you just move the sight or move the rest again until you're hitting where the field points are hitting ? Then, after you've moved this rest to accommodate the broadheads, your bare-shafts are off. So, if the bow still tuned ?
I don't pretend to know the answer for sure. I just want to ask some questions and possibly help with trouble shooting. A. Are you bareshafttuning with more than 1 arrow? Or, did you rotate the nock to verify the arrow you are using has a consistent spine? B. What happens when you shoot through paper? Manley for curiosity sake. C. At what distance are you bare shaft tuning out to? Is it the same distances you are attempting to shoot BH's at? D. Do you have a arrow spinner? Is it possible your BH is not running true with your arrow? This is a must. E. Is wind playing a factor? F. Is proper technique being applied? No torquing of the bow? The reason I ask these questions is because this has never happened to me. If I am perfectly bare shaft tuned my BH's have always gone to the same spot. I am of the opionion that if everything is correct your BH's will shoot the same as your bareshafts and FP's.
I have yet to really start "tuning". I had 1 fletched arrow and 1 bare shaft, shot them at 20yards. A/B When paper shooting, I was off, very slightly, consistent with what I saw with the bare shaft at 20. C 20yards. D No. But I'm shooting an Easton Axis with hidden insert. I guess I should throw my completed arrows on the spinner at my local shop, eh ? E No. I did all of this shooting indoors. F Yes. I shot with my wrist release, a back tension release and a thumb release. Also, one of my friends who is a competition shooter also shot this bow(I have him shoot ALL of my bows through paper). Was a touch off for him, as well. I haven't really started playing with this tuning yet because the bow is sighted in just fine for hunting and I've been trying to devote my time away from studying to hunting my target bucks. My 1 question still stands, though. When you BH tune, if you have already bare shaft tuned, and everything else is fine, spine, arrow is straight with BH inserted, etc, etc...but the BHs are still not impacting where FP and BS are, do you move your rest ? Every if your spined perfectly, weighted right, etc, etc.. ? Oh, I failed to notice this sentence.... I'll have to get the bow bare shaft tuned and then see what happens. I'm shooting broadheads that have ALWAYS flown perfectly with my FPs..So I dont assume this will be an issue, but, I want my bow capable of shooting ANY BH, not just sighted in for one specific type.
IF you have the RIGHT spine, and there can be some variances there, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY perfect, I like a little on the stiff side, I even use .340's on 60# bows a lot when setting them up, partially because I have more .340's arrows, but also because the .400's I have are right on the line of being weak with the 125gr tips I like to use at the length I liike (half inch longer than my 29" DL). Moving along.... Generally, I'll set a bow up (eye-balling it, there really isn't that dire need for all these lasers and crap near as I can tell), and zero one pin at 20-25yds. Then I do a walkback using a fletched shaft to 40-45yds, and adjust the rest as needed to get the rest aligned. After that, I screw on a couple of BH's, spin-test them to make sure the FEEL like they spin true. I noticed that a BH tipped arrow may LOOK okay, but not FEEL okay, and if it doesn't FEEL okay, it usually ISN'T!!! But once I have a couple arrows ready, I shoot FP in one target, and BH in the other BH ONLY target, make a not of impact, shoot again, and if consistent be it right on, a little left or right or high or low, I adjust accordingly. Re-shoot, and make sure both are right on at 20-25yds, I then walk back to 30-32yds, and repeat, once good at that point, I repeat the 20-25yds shots, and if still seems good (almost always does, the rare frustrating occasion usually is because of fletch contact), I then move back to 40-45yds and shoot again, if both are within 1-2" of each other, I'm satisfied....(MOST of the time). A couple of the higher level target archers, one shoots for Hoyt and one for Mathews both BH tune their TARGET rigs for their FINE tune on them. Even if they'll never shoot a BH out of them in a tournament or hunt with them, because they feel the bow is better tuned after BH tuning it, even for shooting FP's!!! And they both make a little $$$ shooting their bows so if they're gonna offer a little tip here or there, I'm gonna at least try it, and I've been happy with this tip. I still won't take my tubed peep off my bow though, regardless of the slack I get over that though.....:D By chance..... What bow, arrow, DL, weight, arrow length and tip weight are you using???
If everything is fine the BH's should impact with FP's after bareshaft tuning, providing the person bareshaft tunes correctly. I would not move the rest to tune my bow. IMO the rest should stay at centershot and other things adjusted to get everything correct
What would you play with ? Spine, arrow length, tip weight, draw weight ? I'm shooting a Bowtech Assassin at 68.5" draw weight at a 28.5" draw length. I'm using an Easton Axis N-Fused HIT 340 with 100g head. When I bare shaft shot the arrow indicated maybe a touch nock-low and the head of the arrow was to the right of the nock, in the target.
This won't help his question. The Easton guide just tells you how to do each form of turning. Not which form of tuning is better. If I had to guess right now I would bet your BH's are not true with the shaft. I would say that would be the likely candidate. I'm just under the opinion that if there is smoke somewhere there is fire. Meaning, if something isn't checking out there likely is something not perfect. I've always been able to get everything to check out eventually. Not saying there was not bumps in the road and sometimes these small inconsistencies can be hard to diagnose. If I were you I would PM Bruce. I'm surprised he has not chimed in already. Whatever he tells you..... WRITE IT DOWN! First off. Get those arrows on an arrow spinner and see if that is your problem. Good luck.
Like I said, I've really gotta devote some time to this. But, from what I gather, I'm a touch nock-low and a touch underspined, as far as what the bare-shaft arrow showed. So, I'll double check my center shot and turn the DW down and see what happens ??
I can't see this scenario unfolding (as described). Heck, not to discount anyone's input(s), here....but, you and everyone else would do well to just send Bruce a PM!....lol Good luck.
The one thing that stands out to me is that you only bare shaft tuned back to 20 yards. I often find that when I take it back to 30 yards there is still a little more to be done. This may be what you're seeing come through with your broadheads; there's still a little fine tuning to be done. As everyone else stated, once my bareshaft tune is on, my broadheads, bare shafts and fletched shafts all hit together. I don't bother broadhead tuning anymore because of this and the fact that I hate tearing up my broadhead targets for more than a preseason check to ensure they're on.
I suppose this is one of the few areas I may disagree slightly with you Bruce. I think there is a "technical" centershot, but I think when you put a bow in an archer's hands, it may be a slight variance and if the archer has a consistent reproducible form, then you tune the bow to that shooter. It may only move 1/16", but if that is what needs to be done, that's what I'll do. Right or wrong, it's worked for me for the most part... According to OT2, you're a bit weak, unless you have that arrow cut down to about 26.5", which may explain why the head was to the right of the nock assuming you're right-handed. Now dropping the weight down around 64-65# would help with the spine, and may perfect the tune. Not really gonna lose that much in speed. For me, I simplify things just a bit by going with a stiffer shaft, decent FOC 13-14% or so which also helps arrow flight IMHO, and I go straight to eyeballing the set-up, zeroing a pin, and walking it back to determine how close I was, then I just screw on the BH's and start tweaking. And again, if I'm within a couple inches at 40yds, as long as it's consistent, I'm usually satisfied. I don't have good enough eyes or steadiness to do a whole lot better than that, and I can accept that.
No worries, everyone has a way of accomplishing the same thing. I accomplish the same as moving the rest by raising/lowering draw weight or using a longer/shorter shaft or heavier/lighter tip or a combination of those. IMO you get the most efficiency when the arrow is lined up in the power path of the string (centershot). The powerpath of the string is what it is when a release is used. There should not be a deviation or variance. That is why I do not like to move the rest once it is at centershot.
Bruce, I'm with you on this. I'd rather have everything "set correctly". There are 2 aspects of shooting anything...1) equipment influence. 2) shooter influence. Like bench shooting a rifle; you bore sight the rifle, match your ammo/load, etc, etc. Shoot from a bench to eliminate as much shooter influence as possible. This way, you know the rifle is ON, itself. Then, you can adjust your shooter influence to adapt to a PROPERLY set up and sighted in weapon. I think people misunderstood my question. I am NOT experiencing BHs flying different from bareshafts and field points. Right now, my bareshaft is not flying true to my finished arrow with FP, but, my mechanicals are. I was simply asking, hypothetically, should I experience this. I was confused about which method, BH tuning or bareshaft tuning was more important. From the response I got, I now understand that if things did happen to be off, it's an issue with arrow spine, DW, etc. because a properly tuned bow should group finished Fp, bareshafts and BHs together. I'm going to get the bow shooting a perfect hole through paper. Make sure my center shot is perfect, then, go from there. I'm using a QAD Ultra Rest. Assuming the "set up" is done correctly, everything is true and shooter influence is perfect- what tolerance is acceptable or expected with my set-up ? How close could I get my bareshafts to my completed arrow at 20yards ?
Depends on what you want. I expect my bareshaft and fletched arrows to hit the same POI at 30 yds although I bareshaft out to 40.
