I agree with Jordan, Bird...yeah I could see that I guess, but not sold on Magic. Magic reminds me more of how LBJ plays as far as killer instinct is concerned. I think things always seemed better in the "old days". The NBA was a different game then. It was a more physical game so tempers seemed to get involved more often. I think thats part of what it made it appear more "competitive". Well that, and the league wasn't watered down then.
I am old enough to have watched MJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe and LBJ. Killer instinct? Only would I say LBJ does not have it yet. Bird and Magic, not so much the killer instinct as the WILL the win. The drive to compete. I am a Laker fan, so, my opinion may be cloudy. But my vote goes to Magic as one of a VERY few who could dominate a game, make everyone around him better, and still score less than 10 points. Jordan... maybe the greatest player (talent and mental) in the history of the game so far.... Many championships playing along side average to good players. Yes I know about Scottie Pittman. What did he do after Jordan? Kobe... may not have the total talent of quickness and jumping of Jordan or James, but he can get his own shot anywhere against anybody at any give time of the game. GO LA
The same thing Jordan did without Pippen. Pippen is listed as one of the 50 greatest all time. Even if you don't agree with that, he was a damn good player.
50 greatest all time!!! I never really agree with list like that. It is an opinion/populairty poll at best. You can never honestly compare players of different eras. The game has changed, the players level of talent has changed. Heck; nothing is the same except for the diminsions of the court and ball. But I will agree that Scottie was very good, I just think he was at his very best in a supporting role. And that is in no way meant to be a bad thing. Every great team has to have at least one great player, and a very very good supporting cast. Jordan would have won at least of couple rings with out Pippen. Not sure Pippen would have won with out MJ. I will finish by saying that I did enjoy watching the Bulls play during that time.
Obviously Jordan ranks #1 in the killer instinct department. I would say Kobe is a VERY close 2nd. One thing you can't question is his heart and will to win. Good to see in this era of the NBA. Players these days would rather look pretty and be on a highlight reel than compete. 3rd and 4th (Bird and Magic) could flip flop IMO. Even they are in a complete different class than Jordan and Kobe. Everyone around him was already pretty dam good..
True. But Magic could dominate a game without scoring. Similar to Bill Russel with his blocking shots and rebounding, on the offensive end Magic was the same in that PPG didn't reflect his dominance.You can't penalize a man in this regard just because his teammates were too good. As far as Pippen, I'm pretty sure he put around 23, 8 and 6 the year Jordan was gone and finished 2nd in the MVP voting thus appearing to show his ability to be "the man," but then again he also averaged close to that when MJ played. So, while he never was a team's go to guy, how many 2nd options put up numbers like that?
Everyone around him was already pretty dam good..[/QUOTE] That is true. But fresh out of college, NBA finals, game 7 (I think) Abdul-Jabbar gets a migrain headache and does not play. The point guard moves to center (at times) and puts up about 40 some pts and close to 20 rebounds. All this against a very talented Celtics team. Also, you gotta love Larry Bird back in the day
He was in his 12th year by the time he left the Bulls! If you can't see how good of a player Pippen was, I don't think anyone of us can convince you otherwise. The dude was a heck of basketball player. Far better than "average". Name the last team that one a championship with only one really good/great player. You can't. Of course, if you don't think Pippen falls into that category, I'm sure can name lots of teams. A lot of great players were great because they played with other great players. Stockton and Malone, one of the greatest combos ever, probably wouldn't have been the same without each other. Jordan may have won a title or two, but he doesn't win six without Pippen. Edit: After thinking, the 76-77 Trailblazers would probably fall into that "one great player" category.
But I will agree that Scottie was very good, Yes I will agree with you, Scottie is a VERY good player. I just think he is at his best as the second go to guy on a team. That is not meant in no way to be a bad thing. The Hall Of Fame is loaded with players who achive greatness playing alone someone who is great.
I really don't understand every time the Jordan thing comes up people say "yeah but he had Pippen". Well big deal! Like someone said before me, EVERY championship team had a combo (or more.... a lot more). Aside from Pippen what did MJ have to help him carry the load? Don't think too long or hard about that cause it was NOBODY. Pippen..... yes great player (better because of Jordan). But aside from him that was a pretty lame team.
Yep, they were pretty lame. Rodman led the league in reboundng all three years he was with the Bulls. Horace Grant averaged 14 and 10 during his three championship seasons with the Bulls. I know averaging a double double is not very good, thats why he is lame too. Steve Kerr is the all time leading three point shooter in history. That would be cool if making outsite shots to spread the floor wasn't so lame. Toni Kukoc won 6th man of the year during the Bulls 4th championship season. I know, I know, you only play with 5 guys at a time...thats why a "6th man" is lame. Yeah these guys weren't "stars", but far from "lame". Oh, and they had that super lame coach, Phil Jackson. What's he ever done? I guess he's won more championships than any other coach in history, but still, LAME!
Ok ........ now remove Jordan from that team and what do you have? A lame team. See when Jordan took his hiatus. Would their numbers be the same? Don't know where the Phil Jackson thing came from. Never said he was lame. One of the best coaches in the history of the game.
C'mon man! The Bulls lost in the second round of the playoffs, losing in 7 games to the eastern conference champs, the Knicks. As a New Yorker, you should remember that "interesting" call in Game 5 of that series. Pippen finished 3rd in MVP voting behind some dudes named Olajuwon and Robinson, and ahead of some no namers like O'neal, Ewing, Payton, Malone and Barkley. Armstrong and Grant made the all star team, where Pippen won the MVP in those sweet red shoes. Of course they weren't as good of a team without Jordan. He was the best player ever! All great teams are going to have players that are made better by great players, or at least they look better because they play for a winning team. The 93-94 Bulls were certainly not lame without Jordan.
