Lol, I understand that. I grew up in Gillette, live in Sheridan and hunt all over. Do you still travel out here to hunt?
I haven't been back to hunt at all. Went fishing up near tensleep a couple summers ago. I have been having alot of fun chasing the blacktail out here. Going on a elk/mulie hunt this year about an hour southwest of Butte this year. I might be out there next year to try and stick a speedgoat.
In some cases that's fine but if your shooting through holes in the brush a flat shooting arrow is what you need. Flat shooting helps as well if your shooting 50+ yards and don't know the exact distance.
A little note about flat shooting: If you were shooting at an animal at 50 yds and the animal was really 45 yds, the arrow would hit 6.6 inches high. If you were shooting an animal at 45 yds and the animal was really at 50 yds your arrow would hit 7.3 inches low. Those numbers are for a 384 grain arrow at 280 FPS.
5 yards is a big miss on yardage if you are using a rangefinder like I do. Speed is hardly a cure all but is definitely an advantage that might as well be taken advantage of. It's Great if you range a buck and he changes by a yard, which can happen. More than likely you'll still be in the kill with a fast arrow. If your arrow has less of an arc throughtout it's flight there is also less chance you are going to strike an unseen branch, etc. I am really no advocate of super speeds, but neither am I an advocate of adding unnecessary weight to an arrow trying to slightly improve penetration that is Not really needed, and slowing the arrow down needlessly. Find something that works for you and stick with it! If you are having a problem be it with tuning, or penetration then look to correct that problem. That's really what it's all about Dan
IMO, if you're shooting known yardages, the extra speed is of little value. I'd take the extra weight.
The gain from KE from extra arrow weight is minimal, because velocity is squared. I've figured it on many, many of my setups. Case in point: I had an 08 Guardian and shooting a 330 grain arrow my KE was 59.95 and shooting a 500 grain arrow my KE was 63.96 While that is a huge difference in arrow weight it is hardly earth shattering in the gain in KE. I still think the 2 most important factors in penetration is an arrow flying perfectly straight and an adequate FOC. 5 1/2 to 6 grains per pound is plenty adequate for a hunting arrow out of a compound for all the animals that we are discussing here. Dan
If you're one who feels KE is the gold-standard in penetration metrics, then you're probably not gonna change your mind. Diff. of opinion. No biggie.
If I am shooting an animal at 45 yds and it is actually 46 yards the arrow drops 1.9". If I am shooting the animal at 45 yds and the animal is at 44 yds the arrow hits 1.8" high. That's a dead animal. The arrow in question weighs 605 grains and is smokin' fast at 236 FPS. People often talk about KE in relation to penetration when it is actually momentum they should discuss.
My decisions on penetration has nothing to do with my opinion. I've made those decisions based on the experience gained from Bowhunting 42 years. 32 years with a compound. Compounds and Trad bows transfer energy to an arrow totally different, and react to less or more weight in an arrow different When I shot trad gear I generally shot a minimum of 10 grains per pound of draw weight and when I started shooting a compound I did the same, but soon learned there were definite advantages to shooting a lighter arrow with little to No tradeoffs. If adding weight to an arrow is just done to gain penetration then why would I want something I have no need for and lose the advantages gained by a quicker arrow? If you just like a slow arrow so you can watch it arc in flight I'm kewl with that. You ever kill anything at 40 yards? 50 yards? 80 yards? I would Not use a 700 grain arrow to hunt deer no more than most gun hunters would use a .458 mag to hunt deer. I have different setups I'd use for different situations and different animals. To do otherwise or think there is a fit all answer is being pretty closed minded If it's considered a difference of opinion, that's fine. If you get the job done that's all that matters. Dan
I hunt in the real world! It's not a Deer staked down at a certain yardage. It's almost always an educated guess even with a range finder in your pocket. I could care less about some theory of yours that exact range is known. I really could care less whether you think speed is an advantage or not. I don't even want to change your mind. Do what works for you. I do think people reading a thread should hear both sides though. I think I'll go buy a .458 Mag to squirrel hunt next year Dan
Jeff, You are right, if the distances are known, then the reduction in ballistic trajectory will equate to no real advantage. However, since I can shoot a set up that shoots flatter, giving me room for error for those times when the distance is not exactly known, and I still get clean pass throughs, then I see no advantage to not shooting the lighter, faster, flatter set up. Obviously, like this whole sport, it is personal preference.
Dubs, If he's looking to up the weight a little, that's where the .340 spine would come into play, and I've tuned .340 spined arrow in more than a couple 60# bows that aren't near as aggressive without any problems, I've not had the same experience with weak spines. Sure you can cut that length down on a .400 spine but that D340 has a pretty aggressive set of cams..... I know, I've heard you the Binaries can tolerate a weak spine, but in my experience with the 82nd I had, even at 62#, I was still getting weak reactions out of a .320 spined arrow.
I didn't read this whole post to see if anyone already said this but.... I heard on Midwest Whitetail, Bill Winke stated there is a 1 fps change in speed for every 5 grains of arrow weight. It may not be exact but it'll give you an idea of where you are. Also, a heavier arrow will result in a quieter shot as less energy is left in the bow. There's some decent calculators here:https://www.stickemarchery.com/stickemcart/Archery-Calculators.aspx. I'm getting my hands on a chronograph this weekend to see how close the calculations really are.
