Arrow Weight Selection

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by MnMoose, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Hey guys, Looking to build some new arrows for the up coming season. Im shooting a Halon 6 @ 70/30 and ran the calculators with 24 grains on the string. I got the numbers below. Im trying to decide what weight arrow to go with. I would like a set of lighter arrows for distance shooting for 3D and whitetail hunting (not over 40 yds), and a heavier arrow for elk. With the following data, what arrow weight would you guys want to start at?

    Weight - Speed / KE / Momentum @ 70/30
    350 gr - 337 / 88.170 / 0.523
    375 gr - 328 / 89.494 / 0.546
    400 gr - 320 / 90.861 / 0.568
    425 gr - 312 / 91.773 / 0.588
    450 gr - 303 / 91.646 / 0.605
    475 gr - 295 / 91.697 / 0.622
    500 gr - 287 / 91.359 / 0.637
    525 gr - 278 / 90.005 / 0.648
    550 gr - 270 / 88.942 / 0.659
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  2. Point78

    Point78 Newb

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  3. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    When rounded off (3 decimal places is nit picking), everything in the 400 to 500 weight range has the same momentum of .6

    With the bow settings of 70/30, any of them are adequate for anything you will ever want to hunt.

    I personally go for a build that falls anywhere between 400 and 450. Currently I'm at 415 and completely happy with it.

    Sent from my VS500 using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
     
  4. WELDO

    WELDO Weekend Warrior

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    I agree with the previous posts. I would believe you will have like distant shots at whitetails as you will at an Elk . An accurate shot placement with a sharp broadhead will geter done . I like the heaviest arrow you feel comfortable shooting :biggrin:
     
  5. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    Edit to the OP: I meant to say distance shoot and whitetails, not distance at whitetails. Im talking about 100 yds at the range nothing over 40 at a whitetail.

    My thoughts are that our whitetails are ducking arrows really bad, so I want a screaming arrow for whitetails to make it harder for them to drop. Im not worried about pass throughs at 70/30 on whitetails either way, and if I dont get a pass through I will have a 4 blade expandable lodged in the deer's heart or lung cavity, I don't know of a better place for a giant broad head whill that deer tries to run full speed.

    On elk though, I am all about penetration and pass through shots, especially since elk typically don't duck arrows and there isnt as much desire for speed. Last year I had between 5 and 550 gr. I just want to know that sweet spot for heavy arrow penetration.
     
  6. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    The heaviest one. :biggrin:
     
  7. plc613

    plc613 Weekend Warrior

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    I shoot a 600 grain arrow at 60lbs. A well placed, quiet shot at the right time will put a whitetail down every time.
     
  8. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    I understand, but I dont want a 600 gr arrow for whitetails, I wouldn't be able to do 100 yds either at that weight with the HHA. Each deer will drop a different amount when they hear the string, so I dont want to try and guess how low to aim I want an arrow to be going so fast they can't hardly duck it. I have it on film that they dont start ducking until the last 5 yards or so, so if I increase my speed by 30-40 fps over my ~525 gr arrow, they may not drop much at all at 30 yards. For Elk I wouldn't mind going heavy as possible with a solid fixed blade. I could run the numbers for 575 and 600 grains and see what the speed vs KE vs momentum does
     
  9. plc613

    plc613 Weekend Warrior

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    You're trying to predict something completely out of your control. What if he jumps instead of ducks? Maybe he'll jump forward or a little back.

    My point is you should worry about things you can control not the things you can't. Get closer; 100yds on a whitetail? Unless you're in plains you should work on getting close. I use a rifle at that range.

    Accuracy and timing are things you can control and ultimately will give you the results your looking for.

    40fps isn't going to save a bad shot or one when the deer moves after you release.

    Don't get me wrong there are many benefits to getting more fps...

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
  10. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    I'm not taking 100 yd shots at a white tail... I shoot to 100 at the range for practice and if I have 600 great arrows I can't shoot 100 with the king pin.

    For whitetails I'm talking under 40 yards with most of my shots at 30. I want a faster arrow so there is less time for a deer to duck the arrow. I don't need my 525 gr arrows on whitetails

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
     
  11. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Even a 15fps difference in speed is not going to make much difference in terms of arrival time of an arrow. I've shot 450 grains the last few years at 265fps. Never had a deer within 30 yards be able to get out of the way of that.

    Here is a couple of numbers at 30 yards:

    250fps - impacts target in .377 seconds
    275fps - impacts target in .342 seconds
    325fps - impacts target in .290 seconds

    Speed will not get you much of anything if you're worried about deer ducking. What it does help with is incorrect range estimation.

    If you have problems deer ducking too much it tells me two things. The deer are on alert or are very skittish where you hunt, or maybe you need to aim for the lower third of the deer.
     
  12. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Muzzy my man!

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  13. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Look at the point of negative returns...it between 425 and 450. Providing I was shooting a fixed blade head I would use one arrow between those two weights and call it a day.
     
  14. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    250 to 325 is almost 25% faster, which I would think would really make a difference? The deer are pretty jumpy where I hunt, the first doe I shot at I aimed for a double lung, and she ducked about 18" and I wasnt even close to her back. The second I aimed for a center heart shot and she ducks and I hit high on her shoulder blade. She lost about 1/4 cup of blood and survived. Third doe was at 26 yards and I aimed for a low heart and I skimmed the back of the deer after it dropped. The last two were on film and the deer starts dropping when the arrow is 5-10 yds away. On the 30 yard shots, 25% faster arrows will hit the deer either before or just as the deer starts to drop...

    Im not saying it will solve my problem, but at 550 grains I have over kill in the momentum department and my problem is deer are ducking arrows, which faster arrows will help. I can handle 3" of ducking, but I dont want to be aiming 18" lower than I want to hit. In my mind, once you pull off the deer, things go south fast unless everything is perfect..
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  15. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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    I will be using large expandable blades for whitetails and fixed for elk.

     
  16. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    I think you will be fine with a mid 400 grain finished weight arrow then.
     
  17. Hammerin Hank

    Hammerin Hank Newb

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    Looks like you need two bows. I wouldn't want to retune my setup shooting two very different weights from the same bow. Tell you're wife I said it was ok.
     
  18. MnMoose

    MnMoose Grizzled Veteran

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  19. roadrunner

    roadrunner Weekend Warrior

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    400 gr and a fixed blade has worked well for me on elk with complete pass through (two holes, one on each side).
     
  20. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I highly doubt any arrow you shoot, out of your specific setup you mentioned will be 250fps. You're somewhere in that 280-290 range even with the heavier arrow I'm guessing. So... if you're deer are getting out of the way of that in less than .050 of a second... you have some abnormally fast deer in your neck of the woods.

    Shoot a mid weight arrow in the 400-450 range, especially with an expandable. You'll get the best of both worlds.

    My advice is to shoot the heaviest arrow you can while still maintaining good speed which you desire. You have room to play with your draw length and weight. I have always built arrows for worst case scenario's. ANY reasonable arrow/broadhead will blow through the rib cage of a deer. Its those shots that aren't perfect that you want insurance on. Case in point, I shoot a 450 grain arrow with a fixed blade Slick Trick at 260. Last fall I hit a big bodied Misssouri buck square on the leg and low (leg was tucked back when I shot). I broke both of his front legs and center punched his heart. In other words, that arrow combo bailed me out.
     

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