After a few weeks of shooting my new setup and breaking the string in I'm starting to get more serious about really getting it dialed in and tuned before the GTG. After all, I don't want to look bad in front of celebrities like Diamond Don and Scotty Abs. So here's my question. My Judge has a 6" brace height which is considerably shorter than the Marquis I was shooting. In addition to that, the Apache rest I'm shooting sets further behind the riser than the Hostage Pro I was shooting before. So while the end of my arrow sticks just past my riser at full draw, it's probably a good 3-4" in front of the rest. Would there be any need or benefit for me to shorten my arrows up at all? Draw length 28" and I'm shooting 65 lbs currently. Gold Tip Pro Hunter 5575s with a 100 grain point. Current shaft length is 27 1/8".
Your arrow length is more determined by dynamic spine. If you were to shorten the length you will increase the stiffness of the arrow, lengthening will do the opposite. To answer your question directly, if your arrow was reacting with a weak spine then there would be a need to shorten the arrow length and the opposite with a stiff arrow reaction. Have you done any kind of tuning with your current setup?
If your getting good results... don't change anything. There's nothing wrong with a long shaft. 26" draw here. 29" arrows. :D
I haven't done any tuning at all with the new setup. I basically bolted everything on and started shooting. So far I'm getting very good results out to 20 yards, but until I really do some tuning I won't know for sure how true my arrows are flying. For now it would be safe to say I can stick with what I'm shooting and depending on the results of the tuning either shorten or lengthen as needed?
Yes, just go with what you have until you tune it up and then you can decide what type of adjustments you want to make Arrow length, tip weight, move the rest, etc.).
If your weak, there would be. I had to shorten my arrows going from guardian to sentinel. I am at the dead limit of 27.5" with 30" draw. But honestly, I don't see how in the world you could use .4" spined arrow with an extreme hard cam like that. Even the 7595's would be a tad weak unless you knocked em down to 26.5" or lowered your points to 75gr. If it was me, I would be shooting a .3" spine like ACC 3-71 with 100gr tips at 28-29" arrow so you have room to adjust.
Shortening your arrow, especially as much as 3 inches, will defintely stiffen your shaft some. And as you get older, that's probably a good thing. But I digress. It's also going to lighten your arrow, obviously. Which will cause you to lose KE and momentum. But more importantly than any of this, IMO, is stability. A longer arrow is more stable in flight than a short arrow. If it were me, and it isn't, but if it were, I would leave well enough alone. You can't possibly beat us anyway.
Thanks for the info gents, that's why I love most of you. Christine not included. bigcountry - the cam on the Judge isn't super harsh suprisingly enough. It's the same system used on the GT500 they just shortened the brace height to gain the extra speed. According to pretty much every arrow chart I've consulted they're all recommending a .400 spine arrow for my application. I'm going to paper tune it in the next couple days and I'll let you know how it goes.
Don would you still answer him truthly if you were attending the GTG or would you sabotage him ? hehehe
By my calculations, you really should be using a .340 spine, EVEN at 27 1/8"...... Still gonna be plenty fast I'm sure, and easier to tune. I HATE weak spines as I can drive myself crazy trying to fine tune them....I'll always opt for a STIFFER spine vs. a weak one. For that bow, I'd personally use a 27.5" .340 arrow w/ a 100gr tip if I were trying to achieve optimal arrow flight, but that's just my $.02 on it. My Katera, similar spec's wants a .340 at 63 # and 29" DL. Likewise, both of my 60# AM's shoot the .340's much better than the .400's I have.
According to archers advantage and Ontarget programs, your bow is considered a xhard cam. I have never shot the judge so I don't know. I just pushed your numbers thru my programs. They have been pretty accurate for most shooters. Let us know how it turns out. Just a quick suggestion, try bare shaft shooting and see how it turns out. Then throw on a fixed BH and that will tell the tale. I would be curious.
If we make it out to the club we can paper tune it and use my AXIS .340 arrows which are around 27 1/8" to try a little heavier spine. I am shooting those out of an 84# Katera and they are too weak with a 125gr. head but shoot great with a 100gr. head.
Gold Tip’s chart says the 5575 should be OK up to 27 inches in length even up to 70 pounds draw weight but your 6 inch brace height combined with the high energy cam grinds could give you an effective 70 pound draw weight. Until you can get a better feel for what is going on with their performance, I would be tempted to do nothing. Stripping three shafts and doing the bare shaft planing test would tell the tale. If they act “weak” lighten the tips (for absolute proof during testing) or get out the chopper (I would opt for the chop and stay with the heavier point). Gold Tip’s charts show dropping 1 inch in arrow length puts you very comfortably under the wire (26 inch length is good to 75 pounds draw with the 100 grain tip) and the lost arrow mass from 1 inch would be insignificant. Easton Technical allows a .400 spine all the way to 72 pounds with a 27 inch arrow and 100 grain tip. If you were to go with the 26 inch length, their program says you should be good to 78 pounds draw! All that said, it is always better to be a little on the stiff side regardless of the bow. Now, where is the razor for stripping?
Stripped down two arrows tonight and I'm definitely hitting about 4" left at 20 yards. Groups are great, arrows are just hitting left with the tail pointing to the right. I don't have any lighter points at home or an arrow saw, so I'm planning on chopping them down an inch or so at the office tomorrow and see how that goes. Thanks for all the help so far guys!
Before you go whacking on those sticks, you need to read through this: http://www.thearcher.com/depot/resourceCentre/completetuningguide.pdf You may want to play with nock height and center shot before you whip out the saw.
Well I have to say, I'm getting some very interesting results here. Double checked my nock point, which looks good. I'm about 1/8" above center. Double checked my centershot and indeed I was off a bit since the original setup. Arrow was pointing to the right (towards the riser). So I adjusted it out and shot again. Same 27" arrows at 20 yards, 65 lbs. Bare shafts still hitting to the left, but down to about 2" left. However, the tail is still right. Shot through paper about 6 times with the same results - tail right. Since both results would seem to indicated too stiff of a spine, I upped my draw to roughly 71 lbs with virtually the same results - tail right, left impact on bare shafts at 20 yds. Suggestions?
Try a heavier point. See if it still hits the same. If it's still the same, see if the arrow hits the same way at 5 yards and 10 yards.
