I am in the process of getting everything setup. I have a Mathews Drenalin shooting between 65-70 pounds. The bow has a 28 inch draw length. I am trying to choose a solid arrow and broadhead. I am looking at the Beman ICS Hunters, Carbon Express Rebel Hunters. The size they are suggest is a 340 arrow. Is this correct? Is a 100 grain broadhead right?
im in the same boat. i choose some aluminum xx75 easton gamegetters and am now wondering if i should have gone with carbon arrows. everything i read is saying that they are so much more superior. i have been looking at the three you say, and have no clue which to shoose. its so hard....
Carbon composite can be very straight and light for the shaft diameter (higher projectile velocity) which translates into flatter shooting and less drop compensation (shorter time of flight). This can be very beneficial when shooting at extended distances as most folks have difficulty in judging drop between 40 and 60 yards. This begs the question: If most deer are killed at 20 yards, why is flatter shooting so important when the kill zone is an 8 to 10 inch diameter circle? It is common knowledge that pass-through (complete arrow penetration) is nearly a given even when using alloy shafts at 20 yards. The very best carbon shafts have a high initial purchase price and it is true that they will return to their original shape well after taking a glancing blow. However, they are susceptible to filler/binder cracking and fiber separation from tip/side impact and nock end damage. Manufacturers of carbon shafts suggest flexing and rolling of the shaft under tension after every shot to reveal fiber/binding filler damage and prevent shaft explosion upon the next firing. It is doubtful many archers practice this precaution but none the less this reflects manufacture’s concerns about prevention of injury to archers and standers by (read that lawsuits). Carbon composite shafts may also become abraded at the point end from being shot into rough targets such as hay. Abrasion can, over time, weaken both shaft strength and spine quality. Today’s hard anodizing on alloy shafts just gets well polished. I have used wood, carbon and alloys in archery. I would never consider carbon again without some sort of nock protection (here we are again with the $$$). I lost a number of shafts to damage from both nock and point end damage. For me, nock end damage is more tolerable (it means I’m doing something right, consistently) rather than worrying about shafts collapsing on the point end or being eroded from target friction. That’s it, laugh…hay will do it! I now use Easton premium alloy shafts with nock end protection i.e. Easton Super Uni Bushing. The Super Slam shafts are spine retention and straightness guaranteed for 2 years and the X-7’s straightness is unparalleled in carbon unless you are prepared to spend more than twice the money. Those who tout alloy “loosing its spine” should think carefully about metallurgy. Flexing metals get harder with time, not more soft. Logic says those alloy shafts should be gaining spine stiffness not loosing spine. It is my contention that the technology needed for composite shaft production is much easier to obtain than for alloy shafts. Therefore more companies are now in the market. Archers are no more resistant to advertising than any other group and so perceived need to “upgrade” to composite shafts seems imperative. I also believe carbon technology should produce less expensive arrows but advertising hype and archer’s tendencies toward herd mentality has pushed pricing (and carbon demand/profit margins) higher. I guess if I had corporate sponsorship or was independently wealthy, I would have the most expensive of everything and not be concerned with replacement price. But I still have to work for a living. Meanwhile, I will content myself with a little longer time of flight, a quieter shot, greater durability and lower replacement cost. Besides, I like shooting the straightest, cheapest arrow on the firing line! http://www.eastonarchery.com/products/selection (shaft selection program) Below is a copy of a reply to a question I posed to Easton Tech's tech folks... Konrad, People have claimed that they do lose their spine after a while, but every time they send them back to check they are fine. I will tell you that for a person to shoot the spine out of a shaft they would have to practice everyday with the same arrows and shoot them three hundred to four hundred times a day for multiple years. Aluminum arrows are very strong and very consistent they just are not as small and don't provide the speeds that carbon arrows do, that's why they aren't as popular as they once were. Thank you for your patience in the delayed response. Tech Support is handling all inquiries and questions as quickly and effectively as possible. Please respond with any more questions or concerns. Thank You, Tech Support -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:19 PM To: techinfo Subject: alloy shaft work hardening question Hello, I have been reading various claims on your competitor’s web-sites. One article concerning spine and its measurement stated that alloy shafts “loose their spine over time due to flexing” from being launched from the bow, striking the target and extraction from the target. My experience tells me that as metal is flexed, it becomes work hardened. In that case an alloy shaft would gain stiffness with age. One scenario that comes to mind would be the non-uniform hardening around the circumference of the shaft or even throughout the length of the shaft. I could see were this would affect the shafts’ flight characteristics but this shaft manufacturer’s (carbon composite only) reasoning seemed poor. Am I all wet? Is there a point where after a specific number of shots spine should be re-verified? Thank you so much for your time. Sincerely yours, Konrad Lau
HANDS DOWN...your not gonna beat them for consistency or accuracy ...And to answer the posters ?...Those numbers are good and Beman makes a good arrow for the money!
So go with the 340 and a 100 grain broadhead? Dang man. Those Easton alloy arrows are at a VERY good price. Maybe I should look more into these.
I wouldnt even waste my money on aluminum arrows, but thats my opinion! The nnice thing about carbons is the fact that they wont bend or tweak on you and wont oscilate as much either upon the shot!
Am I looking at a 29 inch arrow for a 28 inch draw length? Is the draw length measured from groove in the nock to front of the riser?
And the nice thing about aluminum is the fact that they wont explode and rocket through your hand if you don't "flex test" them after every shot.
get good carbons and you wont have that issue, dont shoot insanely tight groups. An easton xx75 shaft at 39" weighs 317 grains a 29 inch axis 240 weighs 275. put on a 125 grainhead and you are right around 430 or so with all your accessories. Your FOC is better than with aluminum, your durability is better than with aluminum, you you dont have to worry about a tiny dent or split in the arrow turning into 300 fps of splintered metal :D the Easton Axis ST shafts and some of the beeman shafts have sucha thick wall diameter, and are so tough. if you really want a badass arrow check out the FMJ's Arrows are one of the most important pieces of the puzzle. Buying a nice 1000 dollar bow and then 40 dollar a dozen arrows is like buying a Ferrari and having em put retread off name tires on it.....
You are right on the bubble with spine, I would go stiffer rather than weaker. Beman ICS 340 w/ 125gr tip will give you a great spine/foc solution for your setup. 100gr will work too if you prefer them. If you go aluminum, go XX78...they are incredibly good shafts. A 2216 or 2315 will work nicely in your setup. You shouldn't need a 29" arrow with a 28" draw. Most shoot the same length or slightly less, just make sure you have enough clearance with your rest.
So I am pretty much settled on a 340 carbon arrow but I am whether to go with a 125 or 100 grain tip? Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of both?
All things being equal, the heavier tip will make your arrow act a bit weaker in spine. Which, IMO would be good for your setup. I pretty much the same setup as you do, but in a 60# Drenalin (flashpoint, ripcord, check and check!). I have a 29" DL and shoot a 28 1/2" Carbon Express Hunters (250). I'm just on the other side of the bubble from you as far as choosing the 250's vs. the 350's. I went with the 250's, but then cut my arrows a bit shorter, and went with the lighter (100 gr.) broadhead, both making my 250 arrows act a bit stiffer. Really when you get to this point, the best this to do is get your rig tuned, and go from there. I'm sure you could get either arrow to shot well through good tuning and changing BH weights. ps, I love my CX Maxima Hunters, great arrows, but like much in the archery world, it's tough to go wrong with any of the major brands. Everything is 10x better than 10 yrs ago.
All of this is pretty new to me. I am trying to understand. I picked the 340 spine arrow based off of the suggestion of Beman. You guys are suggesting a 125 grain BH so I should probably go with that since I am clueless as to why you would pick a 100 vs. a 125.
