I know I said I'd stay out of this thread, but I wanted to address your post as I missed it this morning in my haste to get out the door to work... It's beneficial to change up your routine about every eight to ten weeks or so if you're a new or casual lifter. Many advanced lifters will change their routine much more frequently. This keeps things fresh, and allows your body to train in a slightly different manner while still keeping focus on your goals. As to the different routines, they can be tailored to your goals. Not all of them are specific to competitions, or packing on the muscles. You will gain some size. But, unless you really want it to, you'll stay about where you are now. I would say a training routine comprised of cardio, bodyweight exercises and large compounds would be about right. This will allow you to stay light and lean, have good cardio health while building functional strength. For your pressing, drop the weight to a relatively easy weight for you and focus on form. Focus on squeezing the pecs and pushing the bar away from you. Continued pressing with shoulders will cause damage over time. pseshooter has some decent advice on how to correct it: About the only thing I would add is for him to check the width of his grip on the bar. He might be a smaller stature(frame) and need to vary his grip from where it is now. Slight correction as evidenced by so many people incorrectly using shoulders for lifts. Otherwise, I mostly agree with your post. I agree unless he is focusing on lats for a brief period of time at which he'd want to target from different angles such as chin ups(palms facing towards him) or palms facing together. Sort of like working incline and flat presses.
I know this isn't directed at your quote, but I tend to disagree with changing the routine every 8-10 weeks. It's not really necessary. If it's not broken don't fix it. If you're still progressing, keep things the same. Change it when you need to. Don't put a time limit on it. When you need to add/drop exercises, do so. A lot of beginners can continue adding weight (after deloading / starting light) for months at a time. Bodybuilders tend to switch their routines up frequently, because they are strong and after the point of no longer being able to use the principals of progressive resistance, they have to go with conventional progressive overload. Overload can be done by doing more exercises than before, more volume, increased tempo, increased reps, increased weight, decreased rest between sets, anything that made the muscle work "harder" than it did the previous workout. Since it has became difficult for them to add weight, more difficult than beginners, they are forced to switch up their exercises more frequently as a method of "challenging" their muscles. Giving their bodies something else to grow from, so to speak. That's why more advanced lifters, particularly bodybuilders, tend to change their workout programs up every 8-10 weeks. I agree. I tend to try to stay within the rings when I bench. A lot of people tend to go too wide to shorten the range of motion, and it sometimes results in the elbows being forced to flare out, putting unnecessary tension to the anterior deltoids, and internal rotators of the scapulae. By flaring out the elbows and/or going too wide as mentioned. Benches are hard on the shoulders regardless though. You've just gotta balance your pushes and pulls and stretch the internal rotators. Direct rotator cuff work is nice as well. The general rule of thumb is keep your row and bench the same in volume/frequency/intensity, but that tends to be hard for most people, so they compensate. He could just do both chinups (supinated grip) and pullups (pronated grip) on a pullup bar. Lat pulldowns target specifically what pullups/chinups do, just with less involvement from the core, which is a lot of peoples weak spot and the reason a lot of people can't do a lot of body weight exercises. I think you and I are seeing a bit more eye to eye on the solutions specific to this post.
Changing of routines is not specific to just bodybuilders, or even primarily of them. I've been involved in different sports over the years, and I can tell you from first hand experience that I've changed routines at least once in nearly all of them on average within a 8 week window. The idea isn't solely to change the training routine to prevent muscle plateaus. It's also to help keep the mind from going into auto-pilot from being numb from doing the same routine for too long. Yes, new lifters can go longer and the 8-10 weeks is just a guideline. The point is to change the routine periodically to prevent going stale. Aside from close grip presses, I generally stay within powerlifting meet requirements. Not exactly. I'm just not wanting to go beyond what I've stated. More important things to do and I can't afford to get sucked into a debate again for lack of time. But, different viewpoints are good. It allows others to see different philosophies and thoughts about training.
Well I guess that's your way then. It doesn't make sense to change something that is still working though. Don't fix it unless it's broken. Powerlifters that I know adjust their volume, but not their exercises. Unless it's just accessory exercises, since they are tested on the squat, deadlift, and bench press. If the nutrition is there, the chances of going stale is slim, but, however it does happen. That's where periodization comes in. Couldn't agree more. If it works, it works, regardless of what anyone says. Have a good day.
Not just my way. It's done by countless others and is prescribed by coaches. Change of volume, reps/sets is still a change. Change of order of exercises, is a change. Also, again, it's not just about bodybuilders or powerlifters as there's other athletes whom use strength routines also. Endurance athletes change their routines as well. Certain key elements of an athlete's program will remain such as certain lifts, or a run, or swim. But, number of sets, reps, tempo, the order in which done and auxiliary lifts or exercises will change.
No I dont, I have no idea. Im 46 years old, and have long arms that kills my bench. I just like stayting in somewhat decent shape for my age, it keeps me where I want to be active. I run into alot of classmates that have really let there selves go. I have been there myself weighing as high as 230 lbs and never want to go back to that. I have always loved the weights but got away from it for along time but found it again and loving it. If I ecer try that 1RM, Ill let you know how I do.
nicccccccccccce! free agency is right around the...... wait for it...... waaaaait! as far as the charts go we have a few here bench squat reg rep chart one-three-five two-four-six three-five-seven all different for different things (endurance/strength/power) then we have % charts for all of the "measured" lifts these all have mini cpu's hooked up to them to keep track of velocity then figure in the weight to measure your power/explosion im spoiled to say the least and if i have problems our strength coaches are great with helping you work thru any problems!
When I said that's your way I didn't mean you were the only one that utilized those principals. I meant that's YOUR way meaning it is the way you prefer to train. Bodybuilders tend to do that more frequently than powerlifters though since they are tested on looks and not exercises. Powerlifters, however, tend to mostly be using the conjugate method these days and the only three exercises considered irreplaceable by them are the squat, bench, and deadlift. Yep. That's progressive overload.
When I said that's your way I didn't mean you were the only one that utilized those principals. I meant that's YOUR way meaning it is the way you prefer to train. Bodybuilders tend to do that more frequently than powerlifters though since they are tested on looks and not exercises. Powerlifters, however, tend to mostly be using the conjugate method these days and the only three exercises considered irreplaceable by them are the squat, bench, and deadlift. Yep. That's progressive overload.
So are you saying that strength based athletes whom only train for looks need to change often and those whom train for performance do not? If so, please explain in detail why.
Not to get off topic but will ask anyway ( pseshooter89,,,xxForceTenxx) Just wondering if this is a sign of getting older or hopefully from doing the workouts correctly .I get the soreness in the muscles about 2 days after I work them. In my mind im working them good because that means I broke the fibers down for repair right?? Or is it more just feeling the quirks of getting older,,I just turned 46. I do however recover quickly soon after. give me a sign
I'm saying it is more beneficial to a bodybuilder to change up the programming of exercise selection in a single routine than it is for a powerlifter. It is more beneficial to a powerlifter to use a form of periodization and change up volume, technique, or add accessories after performance of their basic compound exercises, than it is to consistently switch back and forth between exercise selection. I know some powerlifters that keep the same routine all year long, slightly modifying the volume, tempo and other factors instead of consistently changing up the exercises. They need the same exercises, because they are tested on the same exercises. Switching up exercises frequently can be a form of progressive overload, but it does not benefit as much those who wish for strength. Those who wish for strength should perform compound exercises, which task the CNS more, require and teach more intramuscular coordination, and allow you train more efficiently in the planes that you practice. If you went around isolating your muscle groups, they would not know how to perform together as optimally. This is fine for a bodybuilder, who still gains mass from it, but can be detrimental to a powerlifter, who needs muscular coordination for compound exercises. Powerlifters rarely use isolation exercises and IF they do utilize isolation movements, then it is compliment a compound exercise, some form or another. I always use the snow dog analogy to explain the importance of isolation exercises to a powerlifter. They are tested on how well their muscles perform as a unit; therefore, together...like compound exercises teach. Bodybuilding has many goals - symmetry, definition, mass, sometimes even strength depended upon the lifter, but that is a personal preference not attributed to when on stage. Getting stronger is harder for a person in an intermediate or advanced level of training than a complete novice and draining the CNS of a bodybuilder would result in earlier fatigue than someone that relies primarily on isolation exercises and machines. It is more beneficial to these bodybuilders to use isolation movements and machines that do not fatigue their CNS as quickly and perform more exercises rather than more weight, because they get overload, but do not require "getting stronger". You'll also find that most bodybuilders and powerlifters use an entirely different technique to their exercises. I can provide explanations from powerlifters Mark Rippetoe and Dave Tate, then provide videos from Milos Sarcev, and the techniques presented are entirely different. There are two forms of soreness: DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), which is the soreness you're describing, which is felt anywhere from a day to sometimes a few days after workouts, then there is soreness or the "burn" during the workouts. I'll explain both. The "burn" during the workouts is caused by lactic acid release, which is the byproduct of the anaerobic glycosis (the energy system used during weightlifting). It is not a good thing, nor a bad thing, it is just a result of the energy system used sometimes. The other form, which you described, the cause has never been proven. However, it is believed the eccentric phase of the lift (the phase when you are working WITH gravity aka the down phase of the bench press) is the reason. Why? The muscles are lengthening, instead of shortening during this phase. This makes physiologists believe that is the cause of the lift. Soreness isn't a good thing or a bad thing, some people get sore more frequently than others. Your recovery is depended upon a variety of factors. Your body adapts usually to what it is presented to (that's why you must overload a muscle to force continued growth of that muscle). Protein, sleep, CNS adaption, frequency of training, and type of progression are all influential of the bodies recovery process. That's why I perform each movement twice per week, your body will learn to recover quicker that way and that's some of the reason I'm against once per week splitting; lack of frequency.
Thanks for the info,,,I do my forearms 3-4 days a week. reason, they were one of my weak points and I find the 3-4 days on them is working great, so I will continue that on them. I may try some groups a couple times a week just to see. I like experamenting anyway. Thank you for the good info!!
This is usually the best approach for most people. Your forearms are isometrically hit with deadlifts, bench presses, pullups, presses, chinups, and so forth. Everyone is different though when it comes to accessory exercises. Different people will usually need different ones. It's just stubborn body parts. No problem. Glad you got useful information from it. I like to hit everything twice per week, but back when I was a novice I would hit squats three times per week, and everything else once every 4 days. Now I like hitting everything on a routine schedule, upper body on Mondays and Thursdays, and lower body/abs on Tuesdays and Fridays.
I think this thread's long gone beyond it's original discussion so it's not off topic. We're just debating training philosophies... If it's just muscle soreness, it's DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) which isn't a big deal and is actually quite normal. I used to get them later in the day (I generally workout at 0400), and then after a sleep. Being a desk jockey is the worst thing as the blood doesn't flow well while seated. Best thing to do is to just stay lightly active (walk, stairs, etc) to keep the blood flowing and have good nutrition to help get over DOMS. However, if you're getting sharp pain in a joint, you'll want to back off or stop training that area and go see a doctor. I'll have to disagree with you on this. Any lifter will benefit by changing up lifts from time to time. My coaches did this with me, as well as all their other clients. Again, as I mentioned previously, there are core key exercises that will remain the same. But, the order in which their done as well as the lift prior and after will change. I'm being very general here because the lifts, exercises and changes will vary based upon the discipline and needs of that cycle for that particular athlete. I think I know quite well about powerlifters and strongmen rarely using isolation exercises. No need for the explanation of differences between them. Really? Wow, never would have known.... Every type of athlete will train with a different type of technique based upon their discipline as well as their own physiological needs and differences. Why would a swimmer strength train as a powerlifter will? Soccer players train differently than bicyclists. And so on... Hell, I have to train differently than my other fellow triathlon teammates for varying reasons. Exactly. Anyway, I'm off for a workout.
It's a weightlifting discussion, so not too off topic. Besides, it's generally useful. I'll add stretching to this. Every person needs a list of different accessory exercises, I'll totally agree. I'll use myself as an example, my arms are stubborn sometimes and I like doing incline presses. In reference to your comment "the order in which their done as well as the lift prior and after will change. I'm being very general here because the lifts, exercises and changes will vary based upon the discipline and needs of that cycle for that particular athlete". If you're still in reference to putting compound movements first, I'll totally agree, but if you're referring to doing a tricep exercise before bench, doing curls before chinups, or something like that. I'll have to totally disagree. By "changing up the routine", I thought you were one of those guys condoning dropping the bench presses for flies every other mesocycle. I agree that accessory movements can be changed up regularly - curls, biceps, etc. However, I will say that compound movements like close grip bench press, pullups/chinups, parallel dips, and so forth are the best way to work the arms for functional strength. Your imagine didn't show up. And to your sarcasm, the reason I stated that, is I know tons and tons of bodybuilders that are now using a more powerlifting style technique for bench presses, to save their shoulders and rotator cuff some stress: i.e. tucking their elbows, arching their back, sometimes even using low reps, etc. Actually, it probably would benefit a swimmer to train like a powerlifter. The conjugate method involves core training, general strength training, dynamic/power/explosive training, and even high repetition training. What part of these philosophies would a swimmer NOT benefit from? Same here.
No, I believe in large compounds first and foremost then the smaller lifts second. However many large/small they want and mix in load order preference they decide is what I'm getting after. Not sure where, or how, you thought I was referring to smaller lifts first and changing exercises every time one worked a bodypart or day. To me, a cycle is one week or more of a predetermined group of exercises with specific exercises to be performed on each training day based upon the goals and needs of the athlete. In regards to changing of the order, here's a rough example... Cycle 1, day 1: Hang cleans Floor press Romanian deadlifts Front squats Rotate the lifts a little... Cycle 2, day 1: Hang snatch high pull Bench press overhead squat snatch grip dead lift While I did change out a couple of exercises for like, I also changed the order somewhat placing the deadlift last and the squat just before it. That was only an example of one day. Don't focus on imbalance being created, etc. Again, example only... If you couldn't figure it out, I'm talking about one athlete using a totally unrelated sport specific routine for theirs. Anyway, I'm done. We have different philosophies that have some similarities.
LOL,,,You have 17" forearms and I have 17" biceps,,,aint right damit In all honesty your forearms are killer dude I just have to work mine to get any results at all..mine are so stuborn :p
