"Cheating" a bit to break through a pleateau is understandable and totally different than what I was referring to... as evidenced by my second example of Mr. Pushup. Same mentality in both individuals is what I was referring to.
I wish we grew up in the same area, I would have had a blast hanging with you in the gym and the woods. The one rep max is the worst thing that ever happened to me in my years of weightlifting. In all actuality it comes down to a grunt fest of manhood that I liken to the "Duke Michaels" theory of hunting and Penis size. My quest in high school netted me a solid one rep max at 365# with a body weight in the 170-180# range. I raced BMX all over the country at the time and was a beast, that was until I blew my shoulder trying to max at 375# just two months before graduation. I took a few years off from the gym and them got back into it. In high school we had a local guy that came in to lift with us, he was a power lifter and helped me get to my max. I ran into him and was all gung ho on getting back into big weight. Big Fitz was a product of the Ernie Frantz school of Powerlifting and is still a close friend to Ernie last I remember. Fitz became my mentor for many years and to this day we still work out from time to time, he is one of the biggest 51 year olds you will ever see. 14 years ago I was up to 544# on my max at 245# body weight and like years earlier I pushed it another ten pounds and everything let loose. Another few years off left me bitter with the bench and questioning why I did it to myself again. Big Fitz then welcomed me to the Smith machine and I have rarely looked back and no longer need a spotter if I am solo. Currently I have no idea what my max is. My last free weight bench workout was about two months ago and we started with 225x20, 275x16, 315x12 and finished with 365x10 reps. That should put me in the 485 range for my max but there is no way I am gonna get under 485. I now have two shoulders that are toast, my right arm will not bend straight due to lifting with a fractured elbow which I thought was just a badly bruised elbow at the time and a left elbow that sometimes hurts more than the right one. Everything I do at the gym currently is geared around reducing the possibility of injury. I am bigger than I have ever been and stronger in many areas, that is with the exception of the coveted bench max
Good post, Jason... you were one of the guys I was thinking of when talking about not wanting to push it to the edge on a 1RM...
Goodness Raceway, you are one strong guy. 544 lb bench press is friggin unreal, and nowadays you are still as strong as the top .01% of all benchers. Yikes. Good stuff. I was never a real powerful guy like you, I was just explosive (not saying you are not). My new upper body goal is to be able to do 100 push-ups in a row by December 31st of this year. Currently I am at 70.
I don't advocate going beyond protein shakes and multi-vitamins either and I totally agree with what you just said. It seems like you are justifying all personal trainers within the categories as the few lousy medicine ball addicts you've been associated with. I, for one, advocate a completely different style of training - periodization, linear progressive resistance, the 5/3/1 method, conjugate method, etc. I have golds gym weights for the most part. My weights feeling heavier is something every single person that has lifted weights here has noticed. For example, my junior year of high school my 1RM at home was 240lbs. At the school, it was 255. I could bench 225 for 3 reps at the school, but could only bench it once at the house. I've even noticed going to several different gyms that their weights also felt lighter. It is something that every single person that has lifted weights here has noticed. The other set of 45's I have are CAP 45's. The CAPs feel a lot lighter than the Golds Gyms. Next door my buddy has a similar set-up as me in his garage. His 185lbs feels like my 155lbs. It could be, however, the thickness of the bar (better for gripping), the width of the bench, etc. so many other factors. Afterall, I do have a pretty wide bench. Um...to show you that my bench press was advanced for my bodyweight? You claimed it to be weak or whatever, so I posted a chart saying otherwise. My other two lifts aren't good at all. And that's why I said I was planning on waiting a while to compete. You're also not looking at the fact that a suite usually adds a tad bit more weight. I know that the bench press is the least important exercise in a powerlifting competition, or for overall mass, but at least that's something I've already fairly developed. My press, bench press, and pullup total right now are my best areas for my weight. I have been to several of those competitions. Hell, an online buddy of mine went to ULL when they won all kinds of competitions a few years ago. He won trophies and weighed 220lbs, he finished with a 275 bench, 385 squat, and 425 deadlift. I weigh 15lbs less and could finish with more than weight probably right now. Anyway I was talking about local competitions around where I'm from. And I'm not sure if USAPL is even tested or not. I definitely want to compete in a tested event. As many powerlifting forums and so forth that I have shared discussions on, I am fairly sure what to expect in most competitions. I know a few people competing with lifts lower than mine and still doing good. This would seem fair on an exercise like the bench press. Board benches to some people are "cheating" but are used by powerlifters everyday. It depends on how they are used. Cheating on an exercise like a squat though is asking for trouble.
A lot of it is form, your brain and the right training Brett as many have touched on. I would have never been close to that weight if I wasn't in the area I am in. We have a large Power-lifting Community here in the Chicago area and I had some good training partners. The link to the video of Tate is spot on, that dude is a beast. I never got into squatting and haven't dead lifted since 1997 or so but guys today are just doing ridiculous weight. What I did in the past was drug free and it was fun to push it to see how far it would go until it went to far. I really need to start hitting a workout geared more to hunting and endurance strength
Never have read his writings. The whole Power-lifting scene is a little unappealing to me since blowing out the shoulder so I haven't followed it. Got any good articles of his?
Quite a few. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...=0E3CFBB07B95819B70DE13FBFF25DE98-mcd01.hydra http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...aining_performance/squatting_from_head_to_toe http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...rformance/dave_tates_sixweek_bench_press_cure Dave Tate had shoulder issues as well before joining Westside Barbell. I think he even mentions them in his articles. Dave Tate is just one of the many authors I like. Mark Rippetoe is another one, Joe DeFranco, Bill Starr, Louie Simmons, Jim Wendler, etc.
Please don't take my disdain for personal trainers as directed solely at you. I've had dealings with many of them over the years and most are identical thus I tend to treat those whom I don't know with a bit of scorn until I get to know them a little better. Same with physical therapists... There's a lot of different variables when it comes to weights. Especially when it comes to commercial vs. home weights. Generally, the cheap sets found for home use are off compared to the gym sets due to quality. But, I've never seen them off as much as you are claiming. Locations can have differences as well such as the bench width, etc. Also, there are weight differences between bars. A true PL bar is heavier than a standard Oly bar. Or, for that matter, one specifically used for Olympic lifts. Most of what I have here at home is mid grade weights. My favorite set of DB's is an old pair of 35# York DB's. They are perfectly balanced. Weak? No. Compared to the "average" person, it's very strong. To the average fit person, it's good. But, to be competitive and be on the podium like you were saying you want to do, it has a ways to go to get there. Suits add weight depending upon the number of plies it has. But, I'm not talking about open meets which allow suits, wraps and bench shirts. I was talking about raw meets, and stated as such. If you want to talk about open, in order to podium, you need to double your lifts to even be competitive and those shirts, suits and wraps will certainly add up. USAPL is more or less the authority when it comes to sanctioned meets: http://usapowerlifting.com In fact, here is their mission statement: It is the mission of USA Powerlifting to provide powerlifting competition of uniform high quality which is drug tested and available to all athletes who meet the criteria for membership throughout the United States. That being said, most of the local meets are not tested simply due to costs. However, many record breakers and upper level athletes can and do get tested occasionally. Cheating on a squat is inviting of injury. Rather, I'm talking about standing curls, some of the Oly lifts, deads, etc. As far as board training, blocks, etc., to some if it's outside the norm, they view it as cheating. It's all in how it's done and for what/why. I can relate. Many of my friends here are heavy lifters and compete in PL. A few do bodybuilding shows, and others do strongman. I started off with more endurance based sports such as cycling, martial arts, etc and went full bore the other direction. I did great until my health took a hit (heart problems, blown rotators, mild stroke) and had to stop. Two years later, I was training for my first sprint triathlon. I dropped strength training entirely but have been doing more as I'm able to. Auto accident injuries still flare up at times and cause problems with training. Not sure if Dan John's information would help you out as he's a collegiate throws coach, Highland Games competitor, and teaches Olympic lifting. Might be worth looking over some of his stuff: http://danjohn.net
Brett, that's gettin up there... the best I was ever able to pump out was 73 pushups in a timed two minutes, and those (like I'm sure you do knowing you) were absolutely perfect, all the way down, all the way up pushups with a perfectly flat back... doubt I could have done much more than that really... maybe 80 or so. BUT... (and this is a BIG but) that was many years ago. To do that in your mid-30s or whatever you are now is pretty darn good. I'd be lucky to get 55 right now, but I'm not training specifically for pushups either. You do anything with the 100pushups.com training at all, or you just going about it on your own routine?
If you guys knew what I have been benching...you'd bust a gut. Well, I'll tell you. Just bought my bench and I'm still in the process of getting my home gym setup. To start things off, I'm 6'0 and weigh 185 lbs. I haven't tried my max yet but have been putting up oh...95 lbs. :D It feels fairly easy and I can do 3 sets of that weight no problem. To be quiet honest, I don't know if I'd be able to push the bar off my chest with a 45 on each side. I think I'll try it soon but maybe when the wife is home. I know, I know...I'm weak but my goal is to get stronger and to actually stick to a routine of some sort. Putting up the numbers some of you are is not appealing to me, right now. My home gym will consist of a bench press w/ leg curl and preacher curl attachments, set of adjustable dumbbells (5-50lbs), different weight bands, pull up bar, and a treadmill. Are these things really all I need to get a good workout? I don't have space for anything else. Greg....not trying to hijack. Seems to be the place to get this info.
I didn't take any of what was directed from your post solely to me. I do, however, believe you are being stereotypical when it comes to trainers. There's a big difference in someone certified through AFPA and someone certified through NFPT, ACE, NASM. I have three certifications in personal training and one certification in nutrition. None of which has given me half the information conventional powerlifting/bodybuilding/Olympic lifting articles and books has given. I am just as aware as the bad advice given to people by trainers as you are, but all trainers are not under that category. These aren't cheap weights. As mentioned, they are Golds Gym weights. Golds gym are about the top of the line as you can get. I've weighed my weights before, and they usually do come out a couple of ounces heavier than normal. It could also be my bench width or bar grip. All standard bars are 45lbs if Olympic. If you're referring to a heavier bar then you're probably talking about a thickbar, which weighs like 50-60lbs. I've never used one before, but powerlifters use them to increase grip strength for deadlift tournaments. I never said I wanted to be on the podium. I could care less about bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is not my thing at all. Powerlifting? Yes. Do I want to be a Westside powerlifter? No. Do I want to be a guy that randomly competes once a year or so in competitions? Absolutely. Just because you plan on competing in local tournaments does not mean you want to break records. Maybe one day I will bench 405, I'd love to, but I'm not sure if genetically I have it. Most suits tend to be 3 ply suits, but if you want to talk about raw meets then we will talk about raw meets. I have not lifted weights in about 2 years. 2 years ago, I finished with a 305lb bench press @ 196lbs and quit lifting. About 3-4 months ago I started lifting again. I am already up to 295lb bench max (muscle memory) from probably a 185lb max. As mentioned before, I do want to compete in a few months and that is plenty of time to get 315, 325, or maybe even 335 on bench before December or Spring, which is when I do plan on competing. As mentioned, I do not want to compete in national competitions. Just simply a local competition or two. Get a couple trophies, etc. You don't have to be extremely elite strong to get there. I am no expert on Olympic lifts. Absolutely not. And I have no idea whether or not cheating a tab bit would hurt on them. Curls I don't care about and never have. I'm not a bodybuilder and have found that my arms grow much more from compound pulls like bent over rows, pullups, face pulls, and so forth, but I do remember one time nearly pulling a muscle in my back swinging the bar back and forth with cheat curls. It is something that I absolutely do not recommend. You can program incorrect motor pattern by adjusting your form in an improper manner. You asked for what/why on board training. Board training is helpful to those struggling with the lockout phase of the bench press. It allows you to focus entirely on the upper half of the lift. Swinging your back with curls do not help with anything. Unless you know of some sort of benefit to cheat curls? I know how you feel with the health issue. I am hypertension and tachycardia. It started out just systolic hypertension and moved up to now both systolic and diastolic and it's severely impacted my gains. I have actually had to drop bent over rows because of it.
Donnie, no need to worry about hijacking; I got my answer(s) a long time ago -- you're right; it's just a neat discussion now that's broadening out... If you know what types of excersices to do and can put together a good routine, you've got everything you need to have in order to get in really good shape and get fit.... You can do wonders with just your own body weight and a floor, seriously... add a chair to do incline pushups off of, or to do chair dips with, and combine those with the dumbbells and you're in some serious business. Don't worry about how much you can bench... As I mentioned above, I'd a whole lot rather see someone lift less weight with good form than someone who can't somehow get up twice as much. None of us here are going for Mr. Olympia, so don't worry about it... just work on improving, and you'll reap the benefits when it comes to hanging stands or easing that bow back more slowly and remaining undetected.
Although I have a thinner build, I stil have a little flab I need to contend with. I'm wondering if I should even incorporate any strength training at this time or strictly focus on cardio and losing a few pounds. Get a clean slate so to speak and then start lifting the weights. Any ideas?
Usually just cleaning up your diet and eliminating unnecessary foods is enough to just lose a bit of weight. A lot of people gain muscle and lose fat when they begin lifting weights (its difficult to do for those who have been lifting a long time since one requires a caloric surplus and the other a deficit). Mark Rippetoes Starting Strength routine is a good routine to start with. Just remember to balance out your pushes and pulls. For every push, there should be an opposite pull to balance it (curls/tri extensions, bench/row, press/pullup). Try starting out with really light weights and focusing on form, then add 5-10lbs per week until you stall, then try periodization. Best advice for beginners is focusing around compound exercises (multi-joint exercises), training your whole body, and focusing on the weight rather than loads of volume.
Since we're on the subject of benching (PSE, I read your article on proper benching, and some of it certainly helped, but I still have some questions)... I lift VERY regularly (usually 4 times a week), I'm a still a relatively smaller build (5'11, 165lbs), but low body fat. I'm not trying to become a bulky monster, but I really have issues with plateauing, especially on my bench. I'm making some slower gains there (now ending my 4th set with 2-3 reps at 235, but I can't get any higher, and I'm not really sure why. If there's one area I really need to improve, it's my chest, and while I don' really care what my bench #'s are, I would still like to see improvement and gains being made. My chest routine for chest days is as follows: Flat Bench (4x5, or max fail rep on last set) Flat Dumbbell Flys (3x8) Upright Row (3x10) Decline Press (3x8) Standard Push ups (3 Sets Until Failure)
Donnie, most people don't realize that having more muscle helps them burn more calories; I'd definitely suggest incorporating weightlifting in your quest to "tone up" and lose that bit of flab... it's why most women don't really get lean: their unfounded fear that they'll bulk up too much.
