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Another example of Government being too intrusive- agree or disagree?

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by jackflap, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. jackflap

    jackflap Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Misdemeanor convictions in Colorado could call for DNA swab
    By Kurtis Lee, The Denver Post
    Published: Apr 10, 2013, 6:23 PM
    Updated: Apr 11, 2013, 9:30 AM


    Whether it's an assault or a relatively minor offense such as destroying a library book, Coloradans convicted of a misdemeanor would have to open wide and say "aaagh," should lawmakers pass a requirement that the state collect from them an oral DNA sample.

    In what's billed as an ambitious effort to solve cold cases, exonerate those wrongfully convicted and quell future crimes, a Democratic state lawmaker wants to require that individuals convicted of Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3 misdemeanors must submit a DNA sample to be stored in a statewide database system.

    But this effort to expand DNA collection to misdemeanor convictions has raised concerns about privacy issues and the rationale behind such a requirement.

    "DNA is the 21st century fingerprint," said Rep. Dan Pabon, a Denver Democrat, who is the sponsor of the legislation that's set to be heard before a House committee Thursday. " We have become so sophisticated in our technology and science, we can without a shadow of a doubt link someone physically to a crime."

    Already in Colorado, individuals arrested on a felony charge and some misdemeanors involving unlawful sexual conduct are required to provide the state with a DNA sample. And those convicted of a misdemeanor under the proposed legislation would have to pay a $128 fee to cover the costs of the sample.

    Late Wednesday afternoon, after The Denver Post reported about Pabon's bill online, the sponsor said he would offer an amendment to the measure that would only require Class 1 misdemeanors be swabbed.

    However, though Pabon is targeting most misdemeanor offenses, his legislation does not require those convicted of misdemeanor traffic offenses — such as DUIs — to submit oral samples.

    "We don't have the statistics that demonstrate just because you're drinking and driving that you have a propensity to commit more serious crimes," Pabon said. "With respect to theft crimes, assault crimes, those involving the objectification of a person ... those types of crimes indicate that you're going to commit more serious crimes."

    Denise Maes, public policy director at the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said it's a false assumption to conclude that any person who commits a low-level misdemeanor will commit more serious crimes in the future.

    "This encroaches on an individual's privacy," said Maes, who will offer testimony on Thursday in opposition to the bill. "Further, listen carefully to the rationale supporting this bill: 'Collecting DNA helps solve crime.' There is no end to this mission. One may facetiously say 'just chip us at birth,' but in reality this is precisely where the rationale of the proponents naturally leads us to."

    Colorado, were the measure to pass, would join only New York — which passed a similar measure expanding DNA samples for all misdemeanors in 2012 — as states that call for DNA submissions with misdemeanor convictions.

    In 2006, New York legislation allowed for DNA samples to be collected for some misdemeanors that range from petit larceny — such as shoplifting — to assault and criminal trespassing.

    Of the more than 3,300 hits resulting from DNA expansion since then, 32 percent came from petit larcenies and were connected to other, more dangerous felony offenses, according to New York's Division of Criminal Justice Services.

    Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrissey, a staunch proponent of the measure, said expansion will lead to more hits related to felonies in Colorado and around the nation.

    Morrissey's office points to DNA sampling involved in the arrest of Eddie Simon last month. Simon was arrested on a felony drug charge. After his DNA was taken, a match was made in connection to the cold-case rape of a Denver woman in 2001. Simon has since been charged by Morrissey's office with second-degree kidnapping, two counts of sexual assault and third-degree assault.

    Pabon said Wednesday the measure has bipartisan support, though some members of his own party assail the legislation as a severe overreach and question storage of the DNA.

    "When you take DNA evidence from somebody that is completely unrelated to a crime, you're basically creating a database that can be searched at will and without warrant into the future," said Senate Majority Leader Morgan Carroll, a Democrat from Aurora. "It's a serious intrusion into to privacy to keep a government-run database ... this is a slippery slope, and we don't have the oversights in place to do it responsibly."

    Kurtis Lee: 303-954-1655, [email protected] or twitter.com/kurtisalee

    Some of the misdemeanor convictions that would require a dna sample to be submitted

    Class 1 misdemeanor

    Gun Shows

    Violating any of the provisions of section 12-26.1-101 regarding

    background checks at gun shows is a class 1 misdemeanor.

    Liquor code

    Selling, serving, giving away, disposing of,

    exchanging, or delivering, or permitting the sale, serving, giving, or

    procurement of any alcohol beverage to or for anyone who is less than

    21 years old is a class 1 misdemeanor.

    Class 2 misdemeanor

    Barbers and Cosmetologists

    The first violation of practicing or attempting to practice barbering, hairstyling, esthetics, manicuring, or cosmetology without a license is a class 2 misdemeanor.

    Athletic Trainer Practice Act

    The first violation of practicing or attempting to

    practice athletic training without an active registration is a class 2

    misdemeanor.

    Class 3 misdemeanor

    Driver's Licenses

    Unlawful possession or use of a license. Photographing, photostating, duplicating,

    or in any other way reproducing any driver's license or facsimile of one for the

    purpose of distributing, reselling, reusing, or manipulating the license is a class 3

    misdemeanor.

    Libraries

    Library property. Theft or mutilation of library property is a class 3 misdemeanor.
     
  2. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    I guess if I am the guy sitting on death row for a crime I did not commit, it would seem like a pretty good idea. I had to be finger-printed to get a securities license, I dont see this as being a whole lot different. I can imagine it would cost a LOT of money though. Those that refuse, can always be hunted down with a drone and shot with laser guided missiles.
     
  3. dmen

    dmen Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I rarely agree with the ACLU, but today I have twice.
     
  4. MN_Jay

    MN_Jay Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I'm all for it
     
  5. REMYNGTON

    REMYNGTON Grizzled Veteran

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they already have started taking and storing DNA samples from every child born in the country. This is a way to fill in the databases with ones that were born before. :) I don't have a problem with it as long as its used in the proper manners and not abused.
     
  6. Turro

    Turro Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I can see pros and cons to it. The topic came up in ethics and a few other classes in college and there are good, bad, and all in between that can come from it. Lots is good on paper and a mess when in action but lots come through with good results too. I have a feeling if nothing else it will lead to a lot of controversy.
     
  7. jackflap

    jackflap Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Here is a question for those okay with it. If your goal is to have a large database, why not require everyone to submit?

    Granted, in an ideal situation, there is nothing to worry about.

    My concern stems from the fact that mankind has and always will have a faction of corruption. It seems to me that it would be easier to frame someone and plant false evidence if I already knew they were in the databank.

    in addition, as technology increases and they learn more and more by examining your DNA, do you really want the key to that information sittng in a govt. controlled databank vulnerable to hacking or leaking?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  8. Turro

    Turro Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I agree with how things would be good in an ideal situation and the corruption in humans. I've been on all sides of corrections and for the whole system I can't see any perfect solution to anything or anything that wont get used wrongly somewhere somehow. Pretty much every system or procedure put in place for anything gets abused sometime and turned bad. I'm stumped at any way to do better. It would be great if the world could run on the honor system and crime wouldn't be an issue, but that's beyond dreaming. As long as there's something in place it will be pushed, and it gets worse. I think a lot of trends now days are heading worse faster too

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. wl704

    wl704 Legendary Woodsman

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    I shave daily and cut my own hair and nails as needed...would that be a Class 2 Misdemeanor in Colorado since I don't have a barber/beauty/manicurist license? :poke:

    Convicted felons, ok. Repeat offenders maybe. Misdemeanors (1st offense) no.

    Get over the illusion you have privacy in the digital age...
     
  10. MN_Jay

    MN_Jay Die Hard Bowhunter

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    But it's highly unlikely that would happen more than using DNA out if the database to convict the correct person. Therefore if it helps more than it hurts then why wouldn't it be ok?

    Also it may be used as a deterrent if someone knows if he leaves even a hair at a crime scene then it's bye bye freedom.
     
  11. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    I'm in law enforcement and I am completely against that bill. It is too intrusive. Some of the biggest crooks we have are in Washington DC and in state politics. I say we make every last one of them that has ever been convicted of a crime submit to the DNA sampling.
     
  12. Iowa Veteran

    Iowa Veteran Grizzled Veteran

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    When you join the military they now take a dna sample. I am all for it but think they should include all new born children. Kids taken unlawfully from their parents would stand a better chance of being returned. Solve cold cases and exonerate people wrongfully convicted. If you have nothing to hide, why oppose it?
     

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