Alton Sterling Incident

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by tynimiller, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    This was brought up in the Dallas PD thread....personally I don't want to see a thread about our service men and women in blue being gunned down by cowards eroded with disparaging remarks or comments or claims which may or may not have valid concerns or attacks on police officers.

    I wouldn't hesitate to say over 99% of all police officers serve their communities without racism in their hearts, without intent to kill innocent men or women...and definitely without the desire to end life.

    That all said the Alton Sterling Incident has been cited and many claim it was murder I will merely state the following:

    Let me clear; a life was lost.

    That man, from his rap sheet to why the cops were called may have at his last hours been contributing ZERO to society that was good...however he was a son, a father, a friend...I pray for all those surrounding him as this without a doubt is a tough thing to go through.

    As for the incident itself. I wasn't there...I doubt you were there. I doubt ANY of the armchair tough guys on keyboards were there so let's keep it to the facts we know (which is limited):


    -Mr. Sterling was known by law enforcement officers. His rap sheet provides this information clearly and undeniably.
    -The call the police were responding to was one which they were informed the suspect had a weapon/gun.
    -The law enforcement officers got no where verbally with Mr. Sterling (first chance to comply)
    -The law enforcement officers tazer can be heard snapping once in the 2nd angle video out there....Mr. Sterling does not go down, does not comply.
    -The tazer is heard snapping again...nothing, does not comply.
    -The law enforcement officers than tackle and struggle with Mr. Sterling, who does not comply and resists.

    -We then see a severe struggle for position, at one point in a freeze frame of a crappy video it would appear for a atleast a split second the cops had one arm pinned and another in hand...however that is all we can say.
    -Neither video have a proper angle once one of the cops says "Gun, gun he has a gun"
    -Shots follow and sadly it is over.


    That is what we know. We do not know anything more, and nothing less. In ANY police shooting there are three options it was due to self defense, an accident or it was murder. Accident is eliminated here.

    Neither murder nor an act of self defense can be achieved without a full investigation that includes EVERY fact and eyewitness of the case (something we don't have).

    I pray for the cops involved...and especially the one who squeezed his trigger. Even if it was justified, is found justified...he most likely will never be a police officer again due to public and societal scrutiny. His career is over. Not to mention the mental anguish ending a life can cause a man or woman that serves...nothing is easy in that regard.
     
  2. Hooker

    Hooker Grizzled Veteran

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    The Sterling case really shouldn't be debated. The MN case is much more controversial if someone needs a cause to get behind.
     
  3. Spear

    Spear Grizzled Veteran

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    If you don't break the law and listen to law enforcement when they speak to you, the police typically don't detain, arrest, or need to ask you to comply. In the event you don't follow directions, they will make you comply forcefully. If you resist, fight back, they will taze you. If they taze you and you continue to resist, fight back, or try to grab their gun/a gun, you may be shot if they feel their lives are threatened. Seems to me he had almost half a dozen chances to change his stance. Stupidity can be sad, but it's not a valid excuse.
     
  4. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    Gov Mark Dayton has blood on his hands with any rioting that occurs, his statement did nothing but encourage protests to turn violent.
     
  5. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Completely agree Hooker, with the limited knowledge I have on that case I completely agree with you.

    Yup. Poorly worded to say the least.
     
  6. Justin

    Justin Administrator

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    Agreed 100%. However mob mentality rules in most of these cases where people gather to protest (either peacefully or otherwise). The sad reality is most of them don't take the time to learn the facts or form an opinion based any anything more than what other ignorant people around them are chanting. I actually heard an interview with a protest organizer this morning where the girl used the term "genocide" in reference to police killings of blacks. The power of ignorance is mass is a very scary thing.
     
  7. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Grizzled Veteran

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I'm not commenting on either case until I hear all of the details (like any rational human being should be doing). It's truly sad that I have people posting and sharing things on Facebook saying things like "fight fire with fire" (In regards to the Dallas situation. They were pretty much condemning the shooting of the police because of the incidents this week).
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  8. Matt

    Matt Grizzled Veteran

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    I'm just really sick of the race card being played...either way. Black, white, red or whatever we have some crazy *** people in the world/country. Crazy is crazy, and crazy=scary for my kids future.
     
  9. Eddie234

    Eddie234 Weekend Warrior

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    As a police officer for 26 years and a police chief for the last two I'm completely frustrated as to the way this country is going. Things are just getting toxic.

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  10. Smitty0220

    Smitty0220 Weekend Warrior

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    Well written TyniMiller. it's too easy to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts. Media does it all the time!
     
  11. Spear

    Spear Grizzled Veteran

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    Today's youth and undereducated just want to be part of something, whether they have a clue or not. It's social media, it's lack of self confidence, it's ignorance. It's sad.
     
  12. Shocker99

    Shocker99 Grizzled Veteran

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    Oh they get the facts straight alright. "Black" man shot by "White" officers. Those are facts right? Lol. These scenarios are used to distract us from the bigger picture. Sad that so many out there fall for it. If they on top create chaos below they can tighten their grip.
     
  13. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    The MN shooting may be different, but in basically every of the other police shootings that get protested and publicized there is one key fact they always ignore. The person shot in every case had the chance to save their own life by not resisting.

    I have tremendous respect for those who choose to take that job these days. Seeing how rude and disrespectful people are to police even for simple things like getting caught speeding. They know they did it, yet they get made at the officer for doing their job. And it gets worse as the situations get more severe.

    Nothing good comes from disobeying police and resisting. Why is that concept so hard for people to comprehend.
     
  14. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    My department is a pretty big department. That being said we are very short officer wise, meaning there is a good chance at 3 to 4am that no one will be there to help you in a hurry. I'll reference two recent scenes I was on to illustrate some points on how fast officers have to make decisions. NOT to make it seem like Im a billy bad *** because Im not.

    1) We have a burglary in progress so they limit the radio traffic, meaning if you don't have priority radio traffic you dont get on the radio. Well Im just driving up a major road about 4am when I see another officer on a traffic stop and he has his hand on his gun and keeps yelling at this guy to keep his hands visible. No one knew this officer was on a traffic stop. Well I jump out and get on the passenger side. The driver is nuts and is refusing to get out of the car due to being drugged and having felony drugs in the car. Well as soon as my buddy opens the door I open the passenger door. All I see is a flash of silver and my buddy yells, "He is going for his waistband!" I grab his gun hand with my arm and I forearm him in the face with my other arms and the fight is on. We are struggling hard before I can pull him out of the car. All the while he is trying to put his hands in his pants/waistband. Thank goodness we were able to pepper spray him and take the fight out of him and get him into cuffs. He had his keys in his hand, not a gun. But all clues said he had or was going for a gun. That could have gone real bad real fast. And could you blame an officer for pulling out his gun and maybe shooting a guy acting like that? I don't know.......

    2) A couple days ago I see a suspicious vehicle and as soon as I get behind he slips off a side road. I run the tag and he comes back as felony wanted with 3 warrants. The guy finds a pitch back road and pulls his car off the side of the road, slams it in park, and jumps out of the car before I could even stop the cruiser. He emerges from the car with a black object in his hand and walks right at me saying I am harassing him because he is black and that he is calling his lawyer. 6'2"/280 lbs. Long story short I got him in handcuffs and even though he lied to me about his name I was able to identify him. That could have gone real bad real quick. Could you blame an officer for pulling his gun at that moment.......? I don't know.......

    This type of stuff happens quick....real quick.
     
  15. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Exactly, and it's a whole lot easier for people to sit back and armchair quarterback after the fact then it is to make the decision while it's goin down.

    I'm almost gettin to the point where I don't even care about this stuff anymore. If someone wants to be a idiot and fight with the cops I don't really care if they get beat down or shot. Maybe that's the wrong attitude to have but if people wanna act stupid oh well, least it'll thin the heard. I carry all the time and have dealt with cops that knew, some that didn't, and some that found out halfway through the encounter and have never had any problems, maybe that's some of that "white privilege" or maybe it's because I'm not a complete idiot, even with the colorful record I have. No one like getting pulled over and I've expressed those feeling a few times with the officer but it you can't figure out when it's time to shut up then whatever happens to you is on you.

    A DOS agent told bunch of us one time while doing security for a Potus and Sec of State visit in a sketchy country, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, and that's always been in the back of my mind.



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  16. Matt

    Matt Grizzled Veteran

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    I seriously commend you for your job Brett, it's a thankless job with too much scrutiny nowadays. Be safe out there!
     
  17. Josh/OH

    Josh/OH Die Hard Bowhunter

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    My 15 y/o daughter has a fascination with sociology, especially political & cultural issues. She asked me last night "Dad, do you think another civil war is possible -and if so, could it happen in our lifetime?".
    Needless to say, I scared myself with my own answer....
    We have the RNC kicking off in 10 days, in Cleveland; a city that already has its share of turmoil. We're expecting about 3000 officers from across the nation, and protester estimates have risen to 70K+. The "insurance budget" for the event has been raised from $10M to $50M.
    It's scary to think this all could reach/exceed the boiling point on such a large scale.
    I'll be working a BLM demonstration in Columbus tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed...


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  18. FEB

    FEB Grizzled Veteran

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    Josh, Brett, any other LEO's, be careful out there. Nowadays, it takes a special individual to handle even being a cop. I believe any of the idiots that complain and attack LE, should not be able to call on you when THEY need help!
     
  19. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Goodness man.....that is gonna be rough. Be safe brother.

    FEB, thank you.
     
  20. Josh/OH

    Josh/OH Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Same to you, brother.
    And thanks FEB.


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