Has anyone used the Sony ax700? If so, how’s the low light performance on it? I mostly self film with an a6500, and love it, but it’s certainly somewhat difficult vs. a true camcorder. However, it sure is awesome in low light with fast glass, and I come from a photography background, which makes it easier to dial in. However, the kit is pretty substantial to get in a pack. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm using the AX700 and had the AX100 before it. Both are very good in low light. The buck I shot on Sunday night was the last 5 minutes of legal shooting light. With the camera in full manual mode, gain cranked up to about 30 db and the shutter speed down to 30 I was able to film the shot and footage looks pretty good still. I had to stay zoomed out a bit to let more light in, but thankfully can crop it a bit in post since it's recording in 4K and we're broadcasting 1080. That was pushing the camera to it's limit for sure. Personally I think these 1" sensor Sony camcorders are the best bang for the buck in that size/budget range.
Justin nailed it in referencing the 1" sensor camcorders from Sony. Hands down when it comes to value and user friendliness they are the way to go. And they produce GREAT images. I will give you the A6500 perspective. I have been filming with my A6500 for about 17 months now, two deer seasons and a turkey season. I LOVE the camera. I love what it can do and what I can do with it. That being said, it takes a lot more effort on my part than would be involved with the AX700 type of camera. I can get my A6500 to literally see in the dark, but it takes knowing what settings work and running a fast prime lens. I carry two lenses with me at all times when hunting and I have to swap them out as the light drops. Yes it can be a hassle, and I always have the fear that the giant will show up when I have one lens off and am digging the other out of the bag. But that being said, I wouldn't trade my setup because it fits how I like to film and the images that I like for my work. Either is a GREAT choice, but like all things there are trade offs. You just have to figure out which fits your needs best. You will get great footage with either setup.
What fast prime are you using for low light? Do you feel limited in the distance you can film at with a prime lens versus a zoom?
The two lenses that I run for hunts on my A6500 are the 18-105 f/4.0 and the 50 f/1.8. I turn on the intelli-zoom function on the camera and also use the Sony remote that plugs into the multi-port. For the bulk of my hunt, I run the 18-105 f/4.0 lens. Since it is a power zoom lens, I can run the entire zoom range using the remote control. If I really need to extend out, I can let the intelli-zoom kick in and get me out to 210mm. The f/4.0 serves me well over most lighting EXCEPT the first 20-25 minutes and last 20-25 minutes ... generally. When I am in that "magic half hour" on each end of the day, I swap out to the 50 f/1.8. I run in 4K @ 30 fps, so I can run at 1/60 up until the first or last 10-12 minutes, then I slow it down to 1/30. With the intelli-zoom and using the remote control, I have a zoom range of 50 to 100mm to work with and for bow hunting in low light that is more than enough zoom range. Anything that needs over 100mm is going to be tough to settle a pin on in that light anyway. It works surprisingly well to be honest. I have had deer at 25 yards 5 to 10 minutes after or before legal time when I cannot see them with the naked eye, barely see them through my 10x42 binos, yet they are clear enough to count antler points on my LCD screen. Now there is quite a bit of noise in the playback at that low of light, but the point remains that this camera can literally see in the dark. I've not played with any of the full frame A7 or A9's, but friends of mine in the industry say what they can see in the dark is flat out incredible. Ideally, I plan on adding a fast wide prime to my setup too. Because the 50 is too tight for any low light interview in the tree, unless you had a 10 foot long camera arm. So in the event of an evening kill and you wanted to follow up with the excitement after the shot, I'd have to switch to my 18-105 f/4.0 and then turn on a light to get to where I could film myself in those conditions. In terms of do I feel limited by my zoom ... yes and no. If I was gun hunting open fields then heck yea, I don't have the zoom reach in my setup. I'd have to make a huge financial jump to a bulky lens for the reach and it wouldn't be worth it. But I hunt the drainages and small wood lots in northeast Indiana. Most of my deer, even if I was gun hunting, end up in bow range. So for bow hunting in my setups, I'd say that I have enough lens reach for 99% of my situations. Overall, it is a slick setup, but not nearly as straight forward as your AX700. As someone who used to run a Canon XA20, I would be lying if I said that there are times that I do not miss the all in one video camera package. But then I look at the video out of the A6500, not to mention the still shots, and I remember why I made the trade off for the mirrorless package. Like I said, it is all about finding the trade off that fits your personal wants and needs. Both are awesome options.
Thanks guys for all the replies! I'm currently running an a6500 with the 18-105/4 PZ, as well as the sigma 30mm/1.4. The image quality is spectacular, however, the amount of s*it i have to bring to the tree with me is kinda nuts... my 6500, along with the smallrig cage, external monitor, lenses, shotgun mic.... it's lots of stuff! I come from a photography background, so the 6500 is easier for me to keep dialed in and adjust, but I like the all in one package of the ax700. I'm thinking that the depth of field with the 1" sensor is probably pretty good, and it will allow for easier self-filming. When filming other peoples hunts, I run my D850 with a kit full of glass, but that's a no go from the self-filming realm! Where I hunt, I tend to end up getting a lot of deer potentially on me very quickly. It makes hunting with the a6500 a little more challenging. I think the camcorder makes it kinda easier for the quick point and shoot style that the camcorder allows.
My A6500 setup from last year. Pretty close to this this year (I changed out to the new Fourth Arrow base 2.0), a few subtle changes from these photos though. Yea it can be a lot to drag into the field, but not a ton more in my opinion. Setup takes an additional 3 to 4 minutes over a video camera setup. Definitely more batteries to keep track of and charge more often. Back in my old Canon XA20 days with a Muddy arm for comparison. Same pack for both setups.
I can speak pretty intelligently on this. I run the Sony HXR-NX80 which should have nearly identical performance to the AX700 In addition, I run the A6300 w. the kit 16-50 3.5-5.6 for my second angle. Very simply, even with the slowish kit lens, the A6300 performs better in low light. There's really no doubt that with fast glass it would crush the NX80. I run the NX80 on auto gain and iris most of the time, and it starts to add gain pretty early. Now, that camera will still perform really well until past 18db, but it will really start to breakdown past 24db. With all that said, filming with the NX80 affords me a lot more flexibility and it's much easier to control. The screen on the A6300 is not good for filming in my opinion. It just doesn't move enough, so it really requires running an external monitor which is just another thing you have to carry in and setup. I've ran both cams as a main camera, and used a 7" monitor with both. That monitor was just too big for me, so I just sold it and ordered a 5". Hopefully that will be better, but I haven't used an external monitor this year while filming with the NX80 as my main camera. I do love the fact that you can use a cell phone as an external monitor for either camera via their wifi and an app. So I use the cell phone to control my A6300 second angle camera. That's a very cool feature. What I would love to see is for Sony to produce and APS-C sized sensor in a camcorder style body. Seems like that would combine the best of both worlds.
Thanks for all the input. Bummer to hear that the nx80 isn’t as good in low light. The a6500 is really, really impressive in low light. Last night I was hunting and at the end of legal shooting time, I was able to use the a6500 to see things I couldn’t see with my naked eye. Big items too - like logs, bushes, etc, as well as fine details. It was very impressive. Max ISO on 30fps footage at 1/60 shutter, with the 30mm 1.4. It rocks for sure... Here’s my rig: I’m running a dummy battery out of the a6500 so it can be powered off the external monitor. It’s pretty slick, no doubt. The only drawbacks for me, besides the pack ability, is the fact that I need to be able to catch quick action, and it’s just hard to do with this system. I picked up an ax700 today, so I’ll play around with both and figure out which one I’m going to keep. Definitely can only be one! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like the looks of that mount from your cage to the monitor. What is that one out of curiosity? I have avoided a cage setup by using my friction arm. It works well but I am always intrigued with how others do things. I'd also like to know about your "dummy battery" setup. Looks like a power wire going from the monitor over to the camera battery compartment if I am seeing it right. I have a bigger question though for you. How did you get the display info to show up on your external monitor? I have tried everything, including the setting in camera that is supposed to turn it on. I couldn't ever get it to show up when I had my SmallHD monitor and still cannot with my smaller FeelWorld monitor. Regarding your comment about it not being available for quick action situations, that is kind of the beauty of the wired remote. It has an on/off toggle. When "off" the camera is in more of a sleep mode. Slide the toggle to on and it wakes up very fast, a lot faster than powering it on with the switch on the camera.
I wouldn't say the AX700 ro NX80 is bad in low light. I would say that the A63,6500 excel in low light situation in comparison. If you compare apples to apples, the NX80 competes favorably against other camcorders in it's class.
Thanks! This is the small rig mount on amazon - I think it was $13 or so. Happy to link it if you'd like. That is correct. You can buy a dummy battery and run it through the opening in the door, and up to the external monitor, allowing the camera to run off the external monitor. It's really pretty slick. The monitor runs on sony FP-550 batteries, making one battery last for a full hunt (super plus for the a6500!!! With the HDMI cord plugged in, it turns on automatically. I don't have any settings changed (that I know of), it worked right out of the box. I'm running the wired remote, but with the dummy battery, it doesn't allow it to wake up right away. I have to power on the monitor, then the camera will automatically turn on. It takes 9-10 seconds for it to turn on.... not a huge deal, but also, makes it hard to get spur of the moment items... IE - fox running across... deer chasing... anything super quick. This monitor is AWESOME. It's an absolute must for this camera - plus, the ability to power the camera as well is really, really cool. I would agree that the a63/6500 are just amazing cameras in low light - especially with fast glass and the correct settings. I'll post a video from my phone tonight that really sums it up. @Skywalker - does the ax700/nx80 allow enough performance to record a shot right at first light/last light?
Here’s a video from tonight that really sums it up... kinda skewed, because the iPhone made it look slightly darker than it was, but it was certainly past legal shooting light. https://photos.app.goo.gl/MkA4dWde347tfehg8 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have done similar with my phone to show the difference. It is nuts what that sensor will do with fast glass. I ordered a Sigma 19mm f/2.8 for mine just yesterday. Should make a nice tool for certain situations.
So, after playing with the ax700 for the weekend, I’m going to return it. I don’t feel it’s better than the a6500 in any way.... I actually think the a6500 is far, far superior. First off, one of the main draws to the ax700 was the ability to plug in a LANC controller. I know you can power on, zoom and record with the Sony remote, but I wanted to be able to toggle between auto focus and manual, and adjust the focus on my LANC, just like I can on the canon camcorders. For whatever reason, you can’t do that on the ax700. If you hit the af/Mf button on the side of the camcorder, you can then use the focus buttons on the LANC, but what good will that do me in a treestand? It’s actually easier to just make one of the custom buttons on the 6500 the toggle between Af/mf and rack the lens. Also, the overall image quality is far, far superior on the 6500. The ax700 just plain struggled in low light, and with low lux mode engaged, it just cuts the frame rate in half (1/30 in 1080/60)... I don’t want that!! This morning I was using my a6500 as a scanner while it was still dark to my eye, because with some fast glass, the thing can basically see in the dark. Also, I liked the ability to have multiple custom settings on the a6500. I have my main settings, low light settings, slow motion, and picture settings, all at the flip of a switch. I’m able to take product shots in the field and flip back over, all in a nifty compact package. Lastly, in an effort to reduce the “rig” size for self filming, I’m running the camera on the battery grip, with two DSTE batteries that are 1950mAh (double the size of the standard battery), with a shotgun mic and the Sony controller... it’s awesome. I’m able to run a while on those batteries, and keep a couple spares in my pack... the screen works okay for me to see what I need to, and overall, the image is spectacular. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I shot this with my cell phone Saturday evening. It was about 10 minutes after legal time had ended. It was so dark that I could not see two raccoons that were about 15 yards in front of me and making all kinds of noise. Granted a Motorola smart phone does not have the best sensor in the world for low light, but this gives you a perspective of how this camera can see in the dark. The camera was at 4K 30 fps, 1/30, f/1.8 50 mm lens. The image is on my Feelworld F450 monitor. https://i.imgur.com/aQ2qegX.mp4
Great conversation on this thread - appreciate all of the input from everyone. Certainly makes me want to pick up a 6500. lol One thing I'll say is that while you sacrifice some low light capabilities with the AX700 the flexibility you gain in terms of speed of use and amount of extra equipment required to make it work well really make up for it IMO. I've been filming hunts for well over a decade now and I can still count on one hand the amount of good encounters I've had with big bucks right at first or last light. In my experience it just doesn't happen that often. So I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of low light footage in exchange for a simpler, easier to use setup. Especially when self-filming in the heat of the moment. The buck I shot the other week was within 5 minutes of legal shooting time and while the footage isn't the best, it's certainly usable. My current setup is nothing more than an AX700, Rode VideoMic Pro and a LANC controller on a Fourth Arrow arm. I only have one battery to worry about charging for my camera and a single Lithium 9V in the mic will last me a full season or two. It's simple, light, compact and works great. The A6500 sounds intriguing but the additional amount of equipment needed to run it properly to maximize the results, coupled with swapping lenses, turns me off.
Actually it is funny you mentioned this about the encounters at first and last light Justin. I was in the stand thinking about this the other day and pretty much have had the same conclusion. I've been filming hunts for over 10 years now and have never killed a deer on camera in low light conditions. Not to say that I haven't had my chances, but I generally passed for one reason or another (generally it wasn't the deer I wanted). I have been deer hunting (gun then bow) for 30+ years and I can only recall a couple of times killing a deer in the first or last 15 minutes, mainly back in the days when I didn't care what I was killing, so long as it was a legal deer. I kill more deer an hour or more after legal time starts or before legal time ends than at the book ends of the time slot. I was thinking the other day actually that I ought to just sleep in a bit longer and get in the stand when the sun has already come up rather than waste time sitting in the dark or gray light. But I just cannot make myself do it ... LOL. Regardless, both of these setups are great options. Both have trade offs. There is no perfect setup. Some days I do miss the simple setup of a video camera. Some days I love the power of the mirrorless.
