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450fps?? Do we really need that much speed?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Meathunter, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    How does drag affect accuracy? Fletching prevents wind shear form blowing the arrow off target. I do not see how no fletching increases accuracy, speed maybe, but not accuracy.
     
  2. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    Sounds about like me but, I have a lot less restrictions on type of vehicle. 2,3,4 wheels, asphalt, dirt, grass, water, straight line, twisties up hill down hill, enclosed, exposed, it doesn't matter at all. Speed gets me going period.
     
  3. Scljrl

    Scljrl Weekend Warrior

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    Think of it this way......which would you rather use to hit the bullseye at 100 yds; with a smoothbore 50 cal muzzleloader or a 1 in 8 twist modern muzzleloader? That being said, the initial cost of these things would be hellishly high just from a production standpoint. The material usage wouldn't change (ie, amount of stuff in each arrow), but you are DEFINITELY going to pay for the idea.
     
  4. Scljrl

    Scljrl Weekend Warrior

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    Crosswind. the more wind drag, the farther the arrow will be blown off target. The smaller the shaft is, the less it's apt to be altered by an outside force, ie wind.
     
  5. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    OK, take a shotgun slug for example. If it is a slug that has no rifling in the barrel or the slug itself, how accurate would that be?? Now add "rifling" to the slug itself to make it spin, how much more accurate is that?? I know its not an apples to apples comparison but, you get the picture. I am not sure how deep they would have to be to work properly though.
     
  6. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    You are comparing two different things. An arrow with fletching is already accurate. When you take away the fletching you are now compensating by adding "rifling" to the shaft. all you are doing is giving an already fletched accurate arrow the same accuracy after removing the fletching by adding "rifling". you haven't made it any more accurate than it already was. A gimmick to sell to folks that adds nothing and actually takes away forgiveness, just like adding speed.
     
  7. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    The larger the fletching the less it will likely be blown off target.
     
  8. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    See my previous reply.
     
  9. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    If you guys were comparing this "rifled" shaft to a bare shaft arrow you would be correct, the spin would induce more accuracy. But you are comparing the rifled arrow to a fletched arrow that is already accurate. For that matter, if I shoot a bareshaft and a fletched arrow at 30 yds and they impact within an inch of each other, which one is more accurate?
     
  10. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    After you think about that for a minute then ask yourself which one has more forgiveness?
     
  11. Scljrl

    Scljrl Weekend Warrior

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    You're correct that todays arrow is accurate by using fletching, but by "rifling"the shaft the cross section of the arrow has gotten smaller, so it won't be affected as much by the outside force. That's why people like blazers whether they recognize it or not. The 2" Blazer has a mush smaller surface area than other vanes/fletchings, giving it increased downrange accuracy for the same reasons as explained above. Mathematically it makes sense, which is my basic argument. For you and I out shooting deer in the woods, makes no sense, but the theory is still true.
     
  12. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    The 2" blazer has the same surface area as my 4" feather, it's just shorter and taller and a lot less forgiveness.

    How much thinner does a shaft need to be than an Easton FMJ?

    You want to add forgiveness from outside forces? Start adding weight to the front and over all arrow, increase the fletching size and decrease the speed. I intentionally shoot in a good cross wind with my 525 grain, 19% FOC, 235fps standard size shafts and have no problems hitting the x.
     
  13. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    I have to argue with you on this one. A side wind WILL blow a longer fletching off target way worse than a shorter fletching. Think about it, you have way more surface area to blow around. Take a sail on a boat for example. Smaller sail, the faster the wind must blow to get the boat moving. The larger the sail, the less the wind has to blow. Here is another analogy, look at the rudder on a plain. the bigger the rudder the easier it will turn.
     
  14. NEW61375

    NEW61375 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I could understand the more downrange accuracy discussion if we were talking shooting off of a machine. With a person shooting a bow the bow becomes only as accurate as the guy behind it. From what I have seen speed provides some very real benefits(to a point) as far as increasing ke and giving you a couple of yards of fudge factor on ranging but it can also really magnify flaws in your form. I feel like the speed craze has been and always will be about marketing/sales "The ______ bow is the fastest with an IBO speed of 500 fps" and some guy who's bow shoots 475 fps IBO reads that and just has to trade his now outdated/inferior piece of crap in for the latest and greatest and most importantly...fastest.

    All of that said there are some great bows out there now and the technology/improvements are pretty amazing. If I were a money is no object kinda guy I would probably have a few to play with. I'm not though, but as long as I can squeak out somewhere near 300fps out of a smooth quiet bow and it continues to drive arrows well into the earth after passing through a deer I guess I'll have to stick with my decade old bow...lol. That's old in bow years.
     
  15. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    The sail on the boat is providing the power to move the boat. The rudder on the boat is providing the steerage so that the boat can go straight even when the current is pushing it in another direction.

    The bow provided the power to move the arrow and the fletching is providing the steerage even when the wind is trying to push it in another direction.
     
  16. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    The rudder on the plane keeps it flying straight even in a crosswind. The bigger the rudder the straighter it flys.
     
  17. Scljrl

    Scljrl Weekend Warrior

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    Which would you rather drive on a windy day in a 30 MPH cross wind, a Prius or a Box truck?? Surface area is surface area. The larger the area the worse it is.
     
  18. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    lol, ok.
     
  19. Vito

    Vito Grizzled Veteran

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    Bruce obviously knows nothing about archery.
     
  20. OHbowhntr

    OHbowhntr Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Add on more set of pulleys, with eccentrics, and we'll have 450fps, but you have to figure out a way to do it without increasing too much friction and losing energy. That being said, it's still gonna require a light projectile, and some seriously damage resistant limbs, cables, axles, etc.... Still gonna require some RAMPED up drawcycle, likely something with a big hump and short valley.
     

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