345 fps is slow?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Vabowman, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. ruck139

    ruck139 Weekend Warrior

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    What kills me is that for each inch of brace height you reduce a bow, you pick up less than 10fps. Take the Halon for instance, the Halon 5 is shooting 353, while the Halon 7 with 2" more brace height is still 335. So for 18fps you have to struggle with a 5" brace height. So not worth it.
     
  2. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    there are very few archers/bowhunters that can accurately shoot a 5" brace or even 6" for that matter. there are lot of people in denial when it comes to accuracy, speed, and what is right for them. I was one those guys years ago.
     
  3. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Nope. And I can attest to this first hand how much of a PITA tuning fixed heads is when you get in the 300 fps range, regardless of how good of a tuner you are. I used to be the speed freak too, thinking that would end all of my problems. Now, I try to get somewhere in the middle, leaning to comfort over the speed more. Like I said, if I can get 280ish or a bit better, and still have a nice shooting, easy pulling bow, great. But I won't give up the comfort and nice draw cycle to get it.
     
  4. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Someone on this forum mentioned one time that it would be nice to see all manufacturers display speed number in terms of something real world. For example list the standard IBO speed and also something like 29/70 450gr arrow. I realize many of us can do the math and figure it out, but lots of folks can't and don't care. Also there are bows/cams that don't lose efficiency, or drop off at lower draw lengths as much as others do.
     
  5. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Listing something "more real world" would prove to be impossible. There are too many variables that differ between shooters to come up with anything more relevant than the current IBO standard.

    What would be more helpful is if sellers did a good job at explaining what the IBO number really means to those that need to know.
     
  6. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    yeh but then they couldn't sell bows...lol
     
  7. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    No it really would be easy. Use a 425 or 450 grain arrow set ups for the ratings....lot more realistic if still not on the lower side than many in the know bowhunters utilize.
     
  8. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    i could see a middle of the road spec. 28" 70# 400 gr and tack on 15 gr for a loaded string.
     
  9. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    There is nothing standard about bow companies trying to guess "a good average setup". If they chose a "middle" arrow weight, DL, and DW it would only be relevant to a small number of archers and most everyone still need to adjusted up and/or down based on their preferences.

    Imagine bow shopping and looking at an IBO number then having to add a little for your DL and subtract a lot for DW then take off a little more because you use a tube peep. What a pain.

    By starting with a best case speed rating, everyone is on a level playing field when shopping around. I know that at my preferred draw weight and length, I can take off approximately 50 to 55 fps of any bow rating and be within a few fps of what I will actually shoot. Easy peasy.
     
  10. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    yeh I agree. makes better sense to me now after reading. I guess it's easier to start at the top and subtract than it is to add, then sub, then add again, then sub
     
  11. CLG73

    CLG73 Newb

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    Brace height is not something to worry about. 20 or more years ago we were shooting over draws that would take 3-4 inches or more off you arrow length. That would affect you accuracy of you were off in your form or torqued the riser. Check this out and see what you think...
    Instagram



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  12. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    so you don't think brace and accuracy have any relavance? yeh used to have a 3" over draw. arrows looked like xbow bolts!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  13. CLG73

    CLG73 Newb

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    Some yes, but for an experienced shooter, not a much as people like to talk or complain about. Most of the time people are referring to something they read in an article that was paid for from Mfgr A about other manufacturers product regarding bows they have never shot. If it is at a draw weight you can handle and an appropriate draw length you would be surprised at how shoot able any modern bow it.
    I have never seen PSE talk about how inaccurate or difficult it is to shoot one of their Professional bows. If someone can't handle a Pro Level set up don't buy one. Or buy one and become more consistent because you have to. But buy arrows that will compliment your bow.


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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  14. Vabowman

    Vabowman Grizzled Veteran

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    yeh I should have been more specific. There are some who can shoot those short braces with deadly accuracy, but for the average bowhunter that doesn't shoot all year and/or does not have good form, they are better off with a longer brace. I know I can shoot 7-7.25" brace way better than a 6". And Im not a great shot at all, but I can kill deer within 25 yds most times. get past 25 yds on a target, Im a rookie after 25 years of shooting.
     
  15. nickster

    nickster Weekend Warrior

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    I remember setting up our bows with overdraws to hit 270 - 280 .wow have the times changed . I shoot a Mathews switchback xt and its fine for me . lol
     
  16. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Eh, I disagree with your point to an extent. Brace height has a direct correlation to forgiveness in a bow. Ask any Pro like you're referring to. I seriously doubt you will find very many target shooters shooting a sub 7" brace bow. Most target bows sold today are over 7" in brace, some even 8"+. There's a reason for that; forgiveness. The very best target bows produced today from Hoyt, Mathews, Bowtech, PSE, etc., feature very little reflex geometry and higher brace heights.

    I can shoot a shorter brace bow fine. I used to have a 6" brace bow that I shot great in the back yard and on the range. However, if we're talking treestands, ground blinds, cold temperates, stiff cold muscles, heaving clothing, weird shot positions, twisting, turning, etc, that says anything but tournament class shooting form, I would bet money that a high brace bow will out shoot shorter brace height bows on average.
     
  17. CLG73

    CLG73 Newb

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    I do agree with you if you are talking about the brace height in a target bow. I did not clarify that. But the difference in perceived accuracy between a speed bow vs a longer a2a and brace height hunting bow I feel has more to do with the shooters comfort with the draw cycle and let off than the brace height itself.
    I have my preference in the field as does anyone.



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  18. davidingle

    davidingle Weekend Warrior

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    Whats the difference between me shooting a 6" brace height with a 28" draw and someone with a 30" draw shooting a 7" brace height? The arrow is going to be on the string longer for the long brace height bow. That would make mine more forgiving than the longer draw length/ brace height combo or is my thinking off?

    Granted the cams would probably be different (for example the nitrum turbo vs nitrum 34.. turbo cam vs. z5 cam) so the power stroke and everything will be different.
     
  19. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I don't believe that is a good comparison. We can't just start shooting a different draw length to add forgiveness.

    If we take two bows with the same draw length, the arrow is on the string longer on a shorter brace bow.

    As for the differences between target and hunting applications. I feel it most certainly applies to hunting, maybe even more so. Forgiveness is one element, but clearance with heavy clothing is another. String stops have helped in this area quite a bit in that it stops the string from going past brace at the shot. Before they came alone, a string would commonly move close to two inches past brace. Try keeping clothing away from that on a 6" brace

    For me, I'd never shoot sub 7" to gain a few fps when I can easily make up that speed elsewhere if I really wanted to. For example I have a Bowtech Experience that IBOs close to 340 with a 7" brace height. It's draw cycle is very comparable to the new Mathews Halon 6 I was able to shoot. But I get the same IBO, maybe a touch better, with a longer more forgiving brace height.

    This is one of the reasons I've stuck with that bow. I can't find another bow is that class that can touch it spec or performance wise. I can get more speed and not give up much of anything in the more important areas.


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  20. davidingle

    davidingle Weekend Warrior

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    I respect and agree with your opinion on this. But given two guys shooting the same bow at different draw lengths (say one at 28" and one at 30") the shorter of the two is going to get more forgiveness from the Bow. So me at a brace height of 6" and draw length of 28" is going to get more forgiveness than someone else shooting a 7" bh with a 30" draw length.
     

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