345 fps is slow?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Vabowman, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. azcoyote

    azcoyote Newb

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    I REALLY hope to be able to test that soon. I am hunting in one of the hardest Spot and Stalk states out there. Arizona can be a really tough hunt with a rifle and this is my first year with a bow. Just a couple more weeks until pre-rut here and I should know something. I can tell you this. At 30 yards at the range, the arrow impact sound like someone hit the target with a bat and the things bury 10-12 inches on new foam. So, it sounds and feels like a good setup to me. I'm just glad I decided to start this now that the tech is so good that even the most humble setup is lethal.
     
  2. Vabowman

    Vabowman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    ask Chuck Adams how well he did in 80's with a similar set up..... :)
     
  3. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    To add, arrow speed is never much of an issue with typical shot distances at whitetails, out to 40 yards. I do believe a flatter trajectory might come in handy with our western counterparts who sometimes have to take shots at longer distances. I could be off base there though, just a theory.

    The biggest thing for me is a bow that is forgiving, enjoyable to shoot and comfortable. I believe I've found a sweet spot in a 32-33" ATA, 7" brace bow. This is with my 28.5" draw length. If it draws nice, and is a shooter, then the added speed, if it has it, is just icing on the cake.

    I'm just rather bummed out that a lot of these companies are pushing sub 7" brace bows, bragging about the added speed. If you're shooting a 6" brace bow, you should be at or above 350fps. But some of them aren't even getting that.

    My point is, if you're going to sacrifice forgiveness/shootability by buying a 6" brace bow, wouldn't you expect it to have the speed? Because thats what shortening brace heights are intended to do, add speed. Otherwise, why not stay at 7" or above?
     
  4. Coop

    Coop Grizzled Veteran

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    I actually liked my 360 much more then my Experience. I do not think all 6" brace height bows are a sacrifice. Some I shot are awful for me. But they are not all unforgiving or give up accuracy, not for me anyway. For example, if I shoot a Halon it will be the 6" first because of how much I liked my 360. If I don't like then I will try a 7". Provided I can find both of course.
     
  5. Vabowman

    Vabowman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I really feel like unless you have really good form and shoot a lot, 7" brace is as low as anyone should go. I had 2 6" brace bows I could not be accurate with them, some people are, not me. I like at least a 7" and even 7.25" even better.
     
  6. Rick James

    Rick James Grizzled Veteran

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    I believe a lot of people are overlooking what really makes a bow "forgiving". It's riser geometry, not necessarily brace height.

    I absolutely feel my RPM 360 was just as forgiving as my Prodigy. It also had a full inch less of brace height. If you look at the throat of the grip though on both bows in relation to the rear of the limb pocket you will see that the actual riser reflex geometry is VERY similar because of the CPX design. I'd venture to say that the RPM360 shot as well as any 31/32" ata bow I've ever owned, although I do slightly prefer the draw cycle of my Prodigy on the comfort setting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  7. Vabowman

    Vabowman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I agree with that. I do think the technology today as opposed to say 5 years ago has allowed the shorter brace to be shot with more accuracy.
     
  8. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Good point Rick James. Geometry does come into play more than we all realize. But my opinion is still that a longer brace bow for any of us, regardless of experience and time shooting each year, going to be a better option. I too can shoot a 6" brace bow just fine. But where I do not like them and another big reason I won't buy one, is for hunting situations, where arm clearence can be an issue with clothing. The string stops have helped tremendously here, but its still something to always be mindful of. Heck, my Experience with the 7" brace is somewhat close to my arm when I'm wearing my heaviest clothing.


    My point with the new Mathews for example is that their Halon 6 advertised speeds are not all the great. Why even consider it? The 7 spec wise is better.
     
  9. JDUB

    JDUB Weekend Warrior

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    Speed is just one spec in the overall pic that helps me decide on where to spend my hard earned money. No one is giving me bows so I have to go buy them. I too am a 7" brace height guy. SO when I look at the market in 7" BH bows...I see major manufacturers Hoyt, Bowtech, Mathews, PSE, and I guess now Elite...then new up and comers like Xpedition and Obsession. So if all things are equal and I shoot them all and narrow it down to a few. Grip and how stable it holds at full draw are #1 for me. Then speed. I mean I could go buy a new Mathews Halon 6 at 345 fps IBO or and Elite Impulse, but they only get me 6" BH...I got a 344fps IBO at 7" brace and I'm sorry but I've shot the other bows and it is just as smooth and easy to draw for me so yes speed sold me that bow. Plus my bow makes IBO equivalent at my draw length 28.5", draw weight 65# and with my arrow set up 413gr. These other 6" bh bows are great...I really love the Chill R and I owned a Hoyt Nitrum Turbo, and Xpedition Xcentric 6. I shoot a 6" brace height bow very well, but for hunting give me 7" BH with speed please. I am curious to know how this new Halon 7 shoots. It would have to be real real smooth and a rock solid platform at 70# to match the performance of my current bow at 65#.
     
  10. Buckaholic84

    Buckaholic84 Weekend Warrior

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    I like what Justin said about the IBO. I shoot 450+ grain arrow and 28.5" draw so i know my speed will be nowhere near the IBO. I choose a bow based on smooth draw and shootability and overall feel. If speed comes with it then thats a plus. I dont choose a bow or just look at ones that shoot over 340.

    Really the only reason i got the bear arena is because i had a 250 dollar gift card to dicks so i bought there and had my shop set it up. But the selling points was the feel and draw of the bow and the 30.5 ata
     
  11. early in

    early in Grizzled Veteran

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    I agree with all of this, except I think a 70lb draw as a standard is unrealistic. Most folks shoot much less. jmo
     
  12. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    Need to do a test with a bigger difference in weight. I'd be willing to say your results would be much different if you went a good 125 grains difference. Do say a 350 grain and 475 ro 500 grain arrow. I've had bows that would shoot a 40 grain difference the same POI until you got past 40yd.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  13. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    I'm reading all this about brace height but, I think what many are overlooking is string angle.

    Over the past few years brace heights have shrunk but, accuracy hasn't suffered nearly as bad as it would have 10 years ago. Take a look at these bows that are coming out and even a point Hoyt makes in their review/overview of the new Defiant. The string angle doesn't feel as steep. It's not. Even on a 31" ATA bow the angle is much less steep than they were a few years back. It's all because cams are bigger. Another thing to consider when looking at a new bow. The ATA may be shorter but, overall bow is longer now.

    The string angle has a huge effect on accuracy and is way underestimated by most bowhunters. Target archers have had it figured out for years. That's why I shoot a 40" ATA bow for indoor. So, you can make a shorter BH bow shoot like a longer BH if the string angle is that of a longer ATA bow.


    In response to the OP question. Is 345fps slow? Yes. Yes in the eyes of the industry standard and your average bowhunter. Something I don't think most of us on this forum understand is we (bowhunting.com members) for the most part are not your average bowhunters. We aren't the general hunting public and really don't think anything like the general hunting public when it comes to our setups. I've had to learn this and adapt when marketing our targets.

    To us is it slow? No. Most of us don't look at that as much as accuracy. Personally, I want a fast bow for hunting. I want a 340+ IBO and I want a 33"+ATA. I want to shoot a heavier arrow faster. That's easy these days. I also haven't shot a deer past 35yd and don't plan to.

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  14. mikey custom-g

    mikey custom-g Weekend Warrior

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    A lot of these bow companies, names withheld, advertise big speed numbers but never come close.

    As far as I know, Elite hits it's ibo stated speeds.

    Hitting 345 is hitting what one particular 360 bow has been noted to hit thru a few chronos.


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  15. Born2Hunt

    Born2Hunt Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Why don't more people shoot a fast 350 fps bow and shoot a heavy arrow 450 to 500 grain. To me that would be the best of two worlds

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  16. Kaiser878

    Kaiser878 Weekend Warrior

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    The problem is most people don't realize the standard for "IBO."

    I mean in all honesty, who shoots a 5pgi hunting arrow??? So you got Tommy over here *****ing about how his bow doesn't meet IBO ratings.... when Tommy is 5 foot 2 and his drawlength is 27 inches..... Tommy will never have a bow that will EVER hit IBO specs that the company publishes.....

    I pick up a bow.... I tune it to my equipment and I make **** dead.... bottom line.... people need to relax on how fast their bow is.... fastest bow in the world doesn't mean squat if you can't hit the broadside of a barn

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  17. Parker70

    Parker70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I'll take quiet over fast ant day. I went back to easton aluminums.
     
  18. StringPuller#1

    StringPuller#1 Weekend Warrior

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    I bought a brand new PSE Omen Maxx 2 yrs ago, fastest bow in production at that time, I've since killed 2 deer with it, my specs and arrow weight have me around 95 on the Ke meter, long story short, I've now taken up tradional archery and will be taking to field this year a 1962 Herters recurve, 50lb draw weight. My arrows are so slow out of this thing I could probably dodge one on some ninja s**t if you shot one at me. I am a speed freak in recovery ! Hahaha, honestly, I'm used to my speed bow now but the draw cycle is very harsh, I think most speed bows would be due to the cam design needed to get over 300fps. Noone Really NEEDS a speed bow, they just WANT one
     
  19. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    That would eliminate many of the penetration problems.
     
  20. StringPuller#1

    StringPuller#1 Weekend Warrior

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    Just to add to the last post, my arrows are 450 grains, flying at 311fps...over kill I'm sure :)
     

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