I would love to get your input on my arrows for hunting elk and deer next fall. I have narrowed it down to the following three. I would like your opinions on overall satisfaction as well as ease of component use, such as finding nocks and broadheads that fit well. An example would be Easton's "broadhead adapter ring", what are these and why do Easton's need them? Easton Axis Full Metal Jacket Gold Tip Pro Hunter Carbon Express PileDriver Hunter I will more than likely be fitting these with Muzzy MX-3 broadheads.
All are good arrows. With that said, I'd also consider looking at the Victory VAP's. That's what I'll be using to hunt with in 2011. A good overview that shows a controlled test with some other hunting arrows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7CfIGmX-u8
Matt, I think your advice is usually excellent but I'll take a pass on the VAP's. Not to pick nits but the guy in the video is confusing momentum with KE and he also says you can cut the arrow an inch shorter due to the the inserts being an inch outside the shaft which doesn't make sense to me when the length of the shaft is determined by dynamic spine and is unaffected by insert length outside the shaft. It is also my understanding that you have to purchase the inserts separately so that the price per dozen is shafts and nocks, not inserts. I could be wrong about that but that is the info I currently have.
The BAR would be used with the FMJ's and what it does is go between the point/BH and the shaft. It allows for a wider point base to taper down to a thinner shaft. Picture a funnel shape between point and shaft with the wide part of the funnel facing the wide base of the point. The Carbon Express Pile Driver would take all standard stuff and that would be the shaft I would recommend for you. It's nice and heavy and has some built in weight forward which would help the FOC.
I really like the CX shafts!! Every time I go away and try something else I end up going back to the Carbon Express. I have shot the CX Aramids the last 3 years I believe and they perform awesome in all areas for me. I'm not a fan of the Easton HIT insert system. Dan
What don't you like about the system? It looks like a good idea, but that doesn't mean that it actually works.
I don't like to use the ubars. I don't like the way some broadheads sit on the shaft without them. I've used the regular Axis as well as the FMJ's and they work fine but I still went back to the CX shafts again. I think Carbon Express are the best all carbon shaft I have used and I've used most of them A lot of Bowhunting is personal preference and I am sure there are guys who love the HIT inserts, but I'm not one of them Dan
I am currently shooting Piledrivers and don't mind them. My only issue was that when I went and calculated what my FOC was with them, I was only around 8.5% or so, and thats with a 350shaft and 27.5" arrows. At that length, with a 100gr head my arrows were around 460gr which I was looking for, for hunting elk. I changed my arrow setup for this year and am now shooting GT Velocity Hunter arrows. They are a very affordable shaft. I went with a 20gr brass insert weight added to the end of the arrow and am running right around 400gr with a 100gr tip. I like shooting 100gr heads as everyone I hunt with uses them, and we all mostly shoot ST heads so if we ever needed to swap it wouldn't be a issue. With these arrows and the extra weight upfront I am right around 12.5% FOC which I like for better stability and BH flight. The bare shafts at my local shop were 65$. I'm getting my own wraps for them and fletching them myself. I have only shot one arrow that I made up so far, but they seem to be good arrows. All reviews that I have read have all been positive on the GT arrows.
Wouldn't the extra weight on the end of the shaft effectively soften the spine? We used to tune (partially) our big, fat indoors arrows by adding point weight for this purpose. BTW, nice looking arrow. That said, I still hunt with aluminum arrows and fixed broad heads. At 65 lbs I don't have any penetration issues.
I'm a big fan of high FOC and heavy arrow weights. All my arrows are carrying brass inserts these days with great results. I agree with MeanV on the HIT inserts on carbon shafts but not on the FMJ. It seems to be a weaker system than standard inserts when there's a hard impact of a point against the carbon shaft, which sometimes shatters it. I haven't seen that with the FMJ where the head actually butts up against the Al+ outer shaft. The BAR issue depends on the broadhead you're using. You have to have them for a head like the Thunderhead where the O-ring seats between the shaft and head. I haven't used the BAR for any other heads (Muzzy, Spitfire, Montec or Striker) and they've worked fine without them.
Yes extra weight softens the spine.. At 43 grains (5/16 insert) that is only around 25 grains more than most inserts and I don't think 25 grains is going to balance an inch off of the length. The 9/32 is only 33 grains total weight so even less difference there.
This is the direction I am looking at going. I am planning on getting a stiffer spine than I need and adding some weight to the front to soften the spine. I purchased the OnTarget2 software to help me out with the spine calculations.
I agree with you on his incorrect terminology, and how he pointed out shaft length can be shorter..........with that said, I don't see why those items make this a less than an ideal arrow system. You can still cut the shaft at the proper length for correct spine, and the diameter of the shaft and insert/outsert design is still going to provide better penetration than your standard diameter carbon arrows. They will certainly penetrate better than anything mentioned on this thread except for the FMJ's, (will probably be close), and I strongly feel that the VAP has a MUCH better component system than the FMJ does. Both the FMJ and VAP will have great spine/weight tolerances, and the VAP will likely have better straightness tolerances and a higher FOC due to the insert/outsert weight. Different strokes for different folks I guess, all of the arrows mentioned in this thread are quality and will work fine. The Victorys will be expensive, but I do feel there will be a few advantages to justify that extra cost.
Didn't say it wasn't ideal, just said I was picking nits. Seemed unusual to see in a company demo, that's all. There are 100 grain brass inserts for the FMJ that I plan on giving a try. Should be able to get a good FOC with those. Well, it will be interesting to see and hear more about these shafts.
When you do your calculations do some using 50 and 100 grain brass inserts. You may like what you see.
Where did you get a 20 grain brass insert? I've tooled up and made a few brass insert and 100 & 50 grain inserts have been doable but not sure if I could crank out a 20 grain brass insert for an ICS shaft or not. I'd just like to look at one. Dan
Bruce, I've got a set of FMJ's with 100 grain brass inserts. The FOC came in at over 20% with a 100 grain point. They group very well and at over 500 grains I am sure they hit hard. Personally I would use them for larger game where I know the range will be short, but the increased trajectory keeps me from using them on most smaller game. I really can not remember the last time I didn't bury my arrow in the dirt including 3 whitetails shot this past season. I'm not a gun hunter but I know most guys who do hunt with a gun don't use the same caliber or even load within a caliber on all game. Dan
