Massive difference between a travel funnel or corridor or pinch point AND a slaughter chute. Deer know it too usually, at least the older ones.
Here's is something to think about. There is always a up wind side of a buck all day every day. Now how do you put your self there? Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Also there are 2 completely different styles here. You have bed hunting and rut hunting. Both should be hunted different. I love bed hunting now, and don't really look forward to rut hunting anymore. The first 2 weeks of October is my prime time now. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Sorry I keep posting little post, this is a subject right up my alley. The problem is that there are so many factors that go into it. And I could post dozen and dozens of scenarios here. One of the biggest I feel for most bucks is they usually are moving some in day light almost every day. But requires them to feel comfortable and have confidence in there bed. They usually only rely on wind while in the bed, but use there vision and hearing to exit it and stage. There stage area is a place they can see and hear from there bed. Usually has some type of food and water located in this area. I call this area there bubble. They don't leave this bubble until they can confirm they are safe, which usually is in the dark. This bubble might only be about 50 yards big. Very small and safe place for a buck. Most I find are less then a half acre in size. So to kill a mature buck outside of the rut, you need to be in there bubble. Now do you have what it takes to put yourself into his bubble with out him knowing. That's the game! Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Neither am I, just enjoying the game and learning every day. I'm glad you posted this, gets me excited for future hunts and get me thinking about my next hunt! Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
I tend to do this also. I'm so nervous about going in tight that I tend to hang on the edges of everything. I know where they enter and exit but instead of going in a little tighter I just stay in the same spot because I am seeing deer constantly. I should be more aggressive but smart about it. I bought a run and gun set but I have never used it. I will build myself up to do it then end up staying in the same spot. I'm going to do some serious thinking on this.
Dude, this is or could be a super cool topic and discussion! Its actually something I'm doing much much more these days. So what you're describing is something that many many big buck hunters are doing and talking about a lot these days. Dan Infalt of the hunting beast is a prime example of doing this. I have adopted his "beast style" of hunting and quite honestly its a ton of fun so far. The idea is this. Mature bucks, the 4 1/2 plus year olds, do not move a ton in daylight hours, even during the peak of the rut, they are not the ones you typically see chasing does across the country side. Thats the big 3 year olds more often than not. But these mature deer are different and need to be hunted differently. They act different than the rest of the deer. In order to get a shot at these bucks, you have to hunt their bedrooms. They don't move enough during daylight hours, especially outside of peak rut, to really have a chance at them. I say all that with the caveat that nothing is 100%. I've personally seen giants at mid day in the rut, etc. But the rule of thumb is they are not typically those deer. So traditional thinking or at least what the outdoor channel feeds people, is the idea that you should stay out of buck bedding areas at all costs. They're telling us this with the idea that you own or lease property and you don't want to pressure that buck to leave and bed on someone elses land. Its probably the right thing to do in their case. But most or many of us don't have that situation. I do on some private I hunt, where we setup "sancturary zones" of known buck bedding areas. We stay out so the bucks always feel comfortable being in there, on our land. But Beast Style hunting, like you describe, assumes that you don't own the land and are most likely hunting public. Its very, very aggressive. I am still getting used to and comfortable with the idea of pressing the issue to get in tight to what I believe is a mature buck or a spot that one may be bedding that day. These bucks like to bed, wind to back and being able to use their eyes on the downwind side. Here in the mountains, thats often a leeward ridge or point. Thats the challenge, you can't come in from below or downwind of them because they will see you and you can't come in upwind of him because he'll smell you. So, you have to "thread the needle" and get to one side of him. The premise is that the mature bed in bullet proof locations that give them the most advantage. I made probably 30 sits last year on what I felt were good winds that would put a buck in a particular spot. I had two encounters with what I believed were mature deer right at closing time and darn near dark. Wind direction is one thing but something else that is said to be even more important is thermals. Mature deer use thermals just as much as wind direction when bedding and traveling. Think about this. A buck can bed on a leeward (downwind side of a ridge). In the morning, while laying there, the wind is hitting him in the back, so he is well aware of anything aproaching from behind him. But also, in the mornings, thermals are rising as the sun warms the day. The air below is warmer and will rise up to him, pulling scent from below. So he can, at any given time of the morning while bedded, be able to smell from above him and below him at the same time. There is that bullet proof bedding they talk about! I think those situations also make it difficult to predict which direction he will go after he gets up in the evenings. So far, I really like this kind of hunting style. I haven't been successful yet, but I feel like everytime I go in and setup, it could happen anytime. Sorry to ramble, but I really like this topic! haha.
Almost every mature buck I've ever killed has been walking with the wind blowing up his ass when I killed him. Many of them came from the exact opposite direction I anticipated them coming from. None of them gave a single second of thought to which side of a specific tree they were traveling on while on their walk to wherever it was they were going.
And just like Greg Hackney one of the best pro fisherman to ever live said " we still know very little about bass behavior" I say the same about deer in general. Bucks, does, mature bucks , mature does, fawns ... They know more than we will ever know!!
And thats the reason people shoot a mature buck off there bed. Most that I have watched actually stand up out of there bed have walked out with the wind still at there back. They only walk to were they can see and feel safe. Then usually stay put in this area til dark/thermals are kicking in. And I bet a dollar that when they leave at dark, they are walking into the thermals. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
The point of my post was that we give deer far more credit for their decision-making skills than they deserve. I don't think much of what we believe a buck thinks about when he's figuring out where to bed is actually valid. We apply all of our human reasoning and decision-making skills to try and figure out the "why" and we're just overcomplicating things. It makes sense to us because we're humans, so people believe it, adopt it, and begin repeating it. And if you repeat something enough times, it becomes truth. Or so they say. The idea that a buck has to "feel comfortable walking upwind of my stand" is laughable. Who comes up with this stuff? Mature bucks don't like other deer, predators, or people. They want to find areas where they can avoid all of these things and/or see/hear/smell them coming. They stay safe by not moving much during daylight. Period. So if you want to kill one outside of the rut you have to figure out where he's spending his time during daylight and get as close as possible to him. There isn't a whole lot more to it than that. Listen to Mark Drury's 3 keys to killing a mature buck - you'll be better off. 1. Scout more than you hunt. 2. Only move in for the kill when the time is right. 3. Use camera data from previous years, if possible. Which ties directly into #1. Find him, be sure of what you found, wait for the right opportunity, then go for the throat.
Thats a good take on things. Last year, the first buck, I had a southwest wind blowing over a point system that faced northeast. I setup about 150 yards from that point. The buck came by me, way out of range, but walked into the wind right at dark. It wasn't much of a wind and thermals were pulling down the mountain, probably into his face as well as he went by me. The second deer did something similar, but it was pretty breezy that night and walked with wind in his face from the ridge system he was on. But i'm betting thermals were also pulling down the mountain and he was walking into them too. The biggest challenge I have faced so far is consistency with wind forecast and what is actually happening in the spot I plan to go to. Id say half the time last year, I had to make significant adjustments to where I hunted because the wind was nowhere near correct to the forecast. The mountains here make it impossible to know for sure until you're there. I also completely abandoned a plan and went to a different spot a couple times. Its super fun playing this type of chess game. I'm having a ball hunting again.
This is something for you to ponder. I love having exaggerated terrain features. Bucks use them and you can too. The only way it to hunt these spots on different winds and watch the deer use them. Use milk weed while in stand. Not only in the wind, but also when thermals fall. Here is a personal example that I hope I can articulate to you. Might be hard to explain thru text. So for me I have a swamp I love to hunt. Maybe 3 acres. It's surrounded by very steep ridges on 3 side and crop fields past ridges. I have found a mature buck will bed in the cattails on a northwest wind, which we have a lot of. Almost impossible to drop into the marsh with out wind blowing in there. The 4th side is almost impassable deep swamp. I did it 1 time and it wasn't fun. But I found if I come in directly Northwest of the bed about 150 yards and walk directly at the buck, the winds swirl and creates a west wind down in there for about 100 yards. Gives me enough wiggle room to actually sneak past the buck at about 40 yards and setup just south of, within 30 yards of him. So point of story is I used the swirling winds to my advantage. What happens is the wind hits the ridge just right and deflects off it and changes direction just enough for me to sneak in on him, completely from "Up wind". Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
The Drurys can do that. Do they ever even sit in a treestand anymore? I Purdy much just hunt my own small piece nowadays. Ain't no way in he ll I'm I'm gonna sneak into their bedroom. Have done it before by canoe in the dark (mornings) and it can be killer but even though I feel like I can sneak out clean, I can tell it screws things up for a few days.
This is the best reply Justin has ever posted. Most bowhunters hunt public land or average private land. Those deer are different than what Lee and Tiffany, Drury's, etc hunt. Can't compare those types of deer on that kind of land..Not saying those deer are a lot easier to kill but they are easier to kill than the average mature buck. If a deer had that much intelligence they'd never be killed. Those big mature bucks stay alive by simply staying put for most of daylight hours. If they get killed then yes, you either got lucky as hell or you outsmarted a four legged animal. They are smart is all relative. I would say 95% of mature bucks become mature because they just don't get on their feet often in daylight. And another thing, the walking up wind of your stand. If a deer has to always have the wind in his favor he would lose his mind trying to get that precise. Sometimes, a lot of times they just walk to where they want to be and if they smell something out of place they change course.
Justin's post is pretty spot on. I agree that most people over complicate things. However, I do feel that understanding the "why" of what a mature buck did that day is extremely important. If I can understand why that mature buck is bedding on a particular point that day, I can absolutely use that information to hunt a different point, maybe a ridge over, or a mile away, targeting another prime bedding location for a particular wind. Maybe the buck is there that day, but he gets up and moves in the opposite direction of your location. Why? Did I jack up the setup? Or maybe I overlooked a food source that he went toward? Mature deer in natural settings like the vast majority of us hunt don't just do things for no reason. They absolutely have a method to their madness thats kept them alive all this time. As Justin said, they most likely are recluses. They don't act like other deer and don't like them much either. I feel like they view other deer as a liability to their survival. That part alone is something I am struggling with since I decided to pursue mature deer on public land here. Hunting night after night and not seeing anything, knowing darn well I can go to several other spots and be covered up in deer, is tough stuff. Its still a ton of fun though, because every sit I have, is some place totally different and new. Right now, I'm focusing on a 42K acre mix of state forest and game lands. Needle in a haystack but it sure is an adventure that make me feel like I'm back country hunting out west for elk more so than hunting whitetails.. lol. Thing is, I don't put much stock at all in what the drury's, lakoski's, or any other TV celeb says. Its no knock on them, I'd do what they're doing in a heart beat if given the chance. But they aren't exactly hunting "wild" deer on these places. Those deer are so conditioned to human presence since they are fawns, its not the same as what most of us hunt. Whats more, they manipulate their land to make the deer as comfortable as possible to keep them there. Again, no knock on it, but its not the same. Drury in particular, is a heck of a whitetail hunter. What he talks about is 100% accurate but I'd wager to bet he doesn't apply half of that knowledge anymore to killing his yearly booner.
Good stuff man! I can relate to that. You sound like you deal with similar wind/thermal challenges. Last year, I setup on what felt like was a great spot with a great wind on two small ridge points. What I didn't account for, was the wind would die at dark and once the thermals kicked in, it was completely wrong. I stuck it out, but had a nice 3 year old 8 point come off that point and go to my right, he turned inside out when he hit my scent stream. I dropped more milkweed and watched that crap float away from where he was, then do a 180 and drift in a big circle to exactly where he was and then down over the side of the ridge... lol. I was in the right farm but the wrong barn... lol
