I thought I read or heard somewhere that its possible to have 1 pin for all shots up to 30 yards. Is this true? If so Im assuming that fps is the primary factor in achieving this. So, because I've only been shooting a bow for about 3 months; will just cranking my draw weight up do this? I'm shooting 65#, my bow will go to 70#. Also I think I could use an extra inch on my draw length. I find myself pushing my head forward to reach my kisser. How much will these two things make a difference? Will it drastically change my set up? Im shooting Beman ICS Hunter 340 arrows w/ 100 gr tip. Thanks.
OK, stop. First things first. worrying about having a fast bow and being able to use one pin to 30 has to come after making sure your bow fits you and you are using proper form. If you have to move to the string to anchor you may need to up the draw length. Can you get someone to take a pic of you at full draw and then post the pic for us to see? Also, is this a new bow? were you measured or fitted for it in any way? Where did you get it? Pro shop? Yard sale? What brand and model of bow is it and what DL is it? I know this sounds like a lot of questions when you came here seeking answers but the more we know about you and your set up the more we can help. Oh, and WELCOME!
This is a great start. As for one pin out to 30, yes and no. If you set a pin for say, 25 yards dead on. It will NOT be dead on at 20 yards nor 30 yards however it will be close. Close enough for hunting situations? Yes for many it is, it is not for me. There is some compensation used to be dead on. You'll need to hold your pin slightly high for 30 yard shots and slightly low for 20 yard shots for pin point accuracy but if you practice you will know where your bow hits at said distances. For example, if you have a 20 yard pin now, go out and shoot 25 yards and hold your 20 yard pin dead on. See how low your arrow hits at 25 yards. Do the same for 30 yards if you have a 30 yard pin. Stand at 25 yards and put your 30 yard pin on the target, see how high your arrow hits. This will give you some idea of what a single pin will do at 25 yards or so.
Depends on what arrow I shoot on if my top pin is 20 or 30! 420 arrow is 20 but the 320's are dead on at 30!
wow! THanks for the responses guys. I will get my wife to take a pic of me. As for the bow, I bought it off ebay from a pro shop. The DW is 65# goes to 70, draw length I think is at 29", goes to 30. I can pull 70# so i figured why not. DL i measured from finger tip to finger tip, subtracted 15 and divided by 2. Good way? My bow is a fred bear instinct. oh, and Im a lefty dont know if that matters. my anchor point feels good, ive got 4finger release and i knuckles sit right in the back of my jaw. Moving my head up just doesnt feel right. Ill get the pics up tomorrow.
All good responses, and dead on. There are many, many more important factors than speed, ESPECIALLY when just starting out. But I'll keep my response specific to your question. An arrow DOES NOT fly flat. No matter what it looks like when you release it. Think about it. Your pin is ABOVE the arrow, right? And by several inches. If the arrow were truly flying flat, it wouldn't be that high. The trajectory of your arrow starts off on the bow, below your line of sight. Upon release, it travels above your line of sight, then back below to the target. An arch. Hence, archery. Gravities effect begins IMMEDIATELY upon release. There's no way around it. You simply cannot shoot fast enough to be "flat." Cannot. Not even a bullet traveling over 3000 fps is flat. Having said that, you should be able to realize that you cannot have 1 pin to 30 yards and be dead on accurate at all ranges in between. If you are dead on at 20 yards, you will be low at 21, all be it maybe 1/8", but you will be lower. The farther the shot, the longer the arrow is in the air, giving gravity more time to effect it. It's also slowing down, adding to the flight time at further ranges. So even though it's only 1 lousy yard, flight time is longer thus....a lower impact point. There is no way to bypass this. Now.....You can, however, shoot 1 pin to 30 yards as Rob mentioned. In fact, that's exactly what I do. I have a single pin slider sight and have yardages marked from 20-70 in 10 yard increments. However, when I'm hunting I set that pin for 25 yards. My set up gives me an impact point of 1 1/2" high at 20 yards and 1 1/2" low at 30 yards. For a deer, an inch and a half don't mean much to me.....So as long as my target is between 18 and 30 yards I just hold center mass and let 'er eat. If it's closer than 18 I need to compensate, and further than 30 I need to compensate. But that's not much an issue for me. I've only shot 1 deer closer than 18 yards and none past 30.
Precisely what I do, and why my first pin is set at 24yds, and my second at 32yds. I've seen exactly how that arrow flies at varied distances from 0-50yds, and set my sight pins accordingly.
I attached a pic of me at full draw to my last post. Like I said, I have only been shooting for a few months and have NO training, so how I shoot is how it felt good. Please let me know what you see wrong. I did notice when looking at the pic that my release it as an angle on the loop. Does that matter? I will take all the advise I can get. Ive killed deer with everything but a bow and hope to do that this year. Also what are some good resources to learn basics of tuning, fletching, etc??? You guys are my Bow Bible. Thanks.
Justin, With that bow, it's not unreasonable to set a first pin at 22-25yds, just know how it will shoot at varied distances from 5-30yds. For my set-up, I'm about 2" high at 15-17yds, then it drops down in and hits perfect at 24. On of my slower set-ups 256fps, I set up at 22yds, and it's about 2" high 14-16yds, then drops down in, for "HUNTING ACCURACY" though, it would be good from basically 0-25yds, while my other set-up would be good basically from 0-28yds. 30yds to me is stretching it just a bit. The set-up you have with the arrows you have is probably gonna be around 260-275fps or somewhere in that range if I were guestimating. My set-up is about 280 right now, I can get it up in the 286-288fps range by dropping weight on my tip, but the spine ends up a little on the stiff side if I do. Dynamic spine is a big part of getting good arrow flight, even bigger when you consider using fixed blade broadheads. For your set-up, if you're shooting 340 series arrows, you'd probably spine better with a 125gr tip, assuming you're arrow are 30" or under. I hopes some of that helps a bit.
Nothing I've read yet would bring me to the conclusion that you are dumb.......It's a legitimate question, one that is debated and discussed quite often. And it's also one that's little understood.
cool. Ive learned a lot so far. So about spine. . . i thought a lighter arrow with a heavier tip would throw it off balance. I figured the lighter i go the better, without exceeding the bows minimum weight limit. also, has anyone looked at the pic of my draw? Wanted to know if anything needs changing.
You're actually on the right track w/out realizing it I think. LOL......a heavier tip will give you better FOC (front of center, which is the % of the arrow weight that is in front of dead center of your arrow) which will cause better stability. BUT, it will weaken your spine some so if you're marginal on spine anyway, a heavier tip will only exacerbate that. Spine, IMHO, is the very most critical component of your arrow. Spine consistency is right there too. Too weak, too much flex. Not good. Too stiff, not enough flex, equally not as good. Though it is better to be slightly overspined than under. We could spend hours upon hours on spine, FOC, weight and speed. Lighter isn't always better. More speed, but less kinetic energy. You want a good mix of the 2, and again.......speed ain't all it's cracked up to be. It's harder to control, less forgiving.......but on the flip side it has it's advantages too. See, we really could be here for hours. LOL
Mobow I am with ya I would rather shoot a slower, heaver arrow that will drive through my target than a super fast arrow for hunting. I do also agree that a bow that is a litter slow is more forgiving to shoot. I do also try to find the balance between speed and kinetic energy. My hunting bow shoots 280 fps with an arrow that weights 320 and broad head that weights 125 = a total weight of 455. I have shot arrows and broad heads that have a weight of 540. You probably could have chronograph the bow with your watch…….LOL
i need to get a chronograph. Thank you so much for all his info. So I am shooting 340 Beman camo hunters' with a 100grain broadhead that will remain unname- Ive caught some flak for it before. . . hint (its mechanical, and there will be blood). Their chart for my cam and DW shows right around 340. So Im hoping Im good there. I would hate to waste the dz. shafts I just bought. I love all the physics in this- So I want most kinetic energy (the umph, when it hits) without getting crazy with the speed. Sweet, Im feeling like I know a little more about what Im shooting and why Im shooting it. What is a good magazine to subscribe to? Thanks again
Actually on that set-up, he's gonna want to weaken the spine a bit, unless his arrows are longer than 30", he'd likely be better off with a 125gr tip from what I plotted. That a medium single cam, with a medium power stroke which he could probably get away with a 400 series and a 100 gr tip as long as it's no longer than 29", but I'll take overspined before underspined anyday!!!! Justin, You need a chronograph like Barry Bonds needs a steroids controversy. Meaning, it's really not going to help that much. I've only shot my bows through chrono's probably a dozen times through the years. If you zero a pin at 20yds, and shoot at 3,5,7,10,13,15,17-18,20, 22, 24, 26, 28, and 30yds, you'll have somewhat of an idea of where that first pin would serve you best. A LOT of guys go straight-up with 20, and you can do that and be just fine, most bowhunting shots could be easily taken with a 20yd pin, but if you want to get the best use out of that first pin, you can shoot 2-3shot from varied distances like I mention above, and seeing how high and how low those arrows impact will give you a little guidance on where that first pin can/should be to be optimal for your bow. Again, my guestimate would be that you'd be fine setting the pin at 22-24yds, which you could then get away using that pin from 0-25yd without really needing a hold-over or hold-under, but once you get to 26-28yds, it WILL hit low enough, you're gonna want to either hold that pin a little high, or hold the next pin in your housing a little low. Set that next pin at 31-32yds, and a 3rd at 40, and know where they hit at any given distance between 0-42yds, and you're almost "Golden."
Here's my guess: JLA is probably a 29inch draw shooting at said 65 lbs, making his ICS 340 on the stiffer side, but still good. Schultzy (just guessing) is shooting a shorter version of the arrow at less DW and DL and is less stiff than JLA, but still in the good. Either way, I am sure Schultzy knows if he is getting good arrow flight. Just typing here, not an arrow guru esp when it comes to non GT arrows, don't have much experience with others.
I would say that Steve's arrow is weak then. Tons of wt up front, long arrow, yeah IMO I'd say that arrow is weak spined. DL would play a part (along with what type of rest you are using) in the length of your arrow.
I seriously doubt that they both are right. JustinLA is shooting a mechanical. I imagine if he put a fixed blade on there he might see a problem.
Just so you guys know. If I shorten my arrow up an Inch their to stiff If I keep the same front weight. My arrow flight Is outstanding where I have them set right now. Here's my specs (I changed them a little Jeff)- 340 FMJ Length from the throat of the nock- (31.50" without a broadhead or tip) (34.25" with my broadhead) Pulling 61lbs at a 27.5" draw length (Recurve) 683 grains of total arrow weight- 303 grains up front. My arrows use to weigh In at 743 grains. I switched out my steel adapters (100 grains) for aluminum adapters (43 grains). I was getting way to much arrow drop at 20 to 25 yards.
