It's time our voices be heard, in mass! What do you want to see? Missouri whitetail population in decline | HuntMO365
I want to see a reduction in immature bucks taken, as well as a reduction in antlerless tags. There are a few counties just north of me that have no reason to be getting unlimited archery antlerless tags. The deer just aren't there. I would love to see an antler restriction go statewide, as well as Missouri becoming a one buck state. A lot of people would hate to see this at first, but I think that they would like the results 2 years from now when they are able to enjoy a more balanced buck/doe ratio and have more quality hunts.
I'm not opposed to reducing tags or moving to a 1 buck maximum. I would like to point out that only 2% of hunters take multiple bucks in a year here in MO.
I'm sure the 2% is probably about right. That being said, I do know of several people from this area that will kill a small buck and are still going after more of them. If Missouri becomes a one buck state that will completely eliminate that from legally happening anymore, which would be great. Being a one buck state and having antler restrictions would greatly improve both our deer herd and the quality of hunting.
As a non-resident, I don't think over the counter tags should be a great concern, because most hunters who travel to hunt Missouri are going in hopes of killing a good buck, letting lesser bucks walk, and not killing does. I think any state that allows 2 bucks to be taken by a single hunter is asking for deer herd trouble. Also, I think the overall quality of bucks in Missouri would increase big time if they were to make it a one buck state with antler restrictions. Folks would be more selective. The antlerless tag allocations should be county specific, based on local numbers. Change the timing of that rifle season too! At least Pa has that part right, our's is the Monday after Thanksgiving.
Yeah, our rifle season is terrible, the timing is set up to destroy the deer herd. It would be great to push it back into December and shorten it substantially. The alternative methods (formerly muzzleloader) season needs to be shortened as well. From mid November thru the first week of January the deer are constantly under fire, for the most part anyways. I'm not too concerned about the out of state hunters, because the majority of them will only be able to kill one buck anyways, unless they make multiple trips or buy both gun and bow tags.
Just to play devil's advocate for a second (and you all know I'm a hardcore deer manager) MO has been complaining for years that our deer season kills don't even keep up with new births. Then consider we had a few years in a row with record harvests....I don't really see the reason to have such a knee jerk reaction over numbers in 2013 being down....afterall that's kinda what we were managing for as a goal to start with. We had disease, drought and poor weather during deer rifle season this year and also deer patterns were just wonky this year with not one really pronounced rut but more like a string of mini-ruts. Deer were just harder to hunt this year for most people. Then add to that, what are permit sales doing? How are those trending? because that factors into the overall kill numbers a great deal. Were firearms permit sales down in 2013...I don't know and can't find it yet. Okay now that I got the "calm down" moment over.... Yes, I agree we have some problems in my opinion. Our seasons (especially firearms) are way too long and centered on the rut. Establish a reasonable target DPSM number per county and start there. 1. Archery season opens a month too early (Sept. 15th), drop that to three months from four. 2. Go back to check stations and away from telecheck. 3. Agree with moving firearms off of the main rut. 4. Manage the doe permit availability based on the DPSM/county logic...unlimited doe tags is stupid. 5. The four point restriction is retarded, find a better way to encourage mature deer harvest not antler based. Placing a 2.5 year old 8-10+ point buck on the "legal" list is stupid. 6. Late Antlerless season is stupid, late doe harvest impacts natural selection and breeding rate. Add a week onto rifle season, make blackpowder legal during moderns portion and leave deer firearms season at two weeks and done. Basically just compress Modern/Muzzleloader/antlerless firearms seasons into two weeks and off the peak rut. Okay now for number 7 which is a big one. 7. MDC needs to buckle down and rehire a a few more game wardens. Poaching here and in KS is terrible and the wardens are spread way too thin. The department doesn't seem to care about deer any longer. I report poaching every year and the last two years have not so much as seen a warden on the road around here from start of archery through the end of firearms. If the Departments aren't going to do their jobs, they need to be disbanded. They are more interested in ****ing around with oddball crap like managing black bears and cougars (introducing them) than managing the game they should be. Edit: Forgot to complain about the guy in the article slamming habitat destruction. MO has A LOT of cover, well more on average per square mile than most states. Deer don't need that much cover to have ideal habitat. CRP did more to limit farm carrying capacity for deer, turkey, quail than anything in history. Better programs to encourage ideal grassy cover can work better in conjunction with agriculture. Standing food and tall cover on field borders is better than entire fields of monoculture grass habitat for all three species. CRP was never about wildlife habitat...it was about controlling crop production.
Well said CM. I don't hunt Missouri but I see the same thing and hear the same thing in other states. It always seems there is never a game warden around when you need one. They are always under manned in my opinion. Getting the bureaucracy to make changes always seems to be a day late and a dollar short of what needs to happen for a variety of reasons. I honestly believe poaching hurts the herds in most areas more than people realize.
Back in the mid-80's here in MO, the game wardens were pro-active in catching violators. MO was trying to increase deer numbers and manage quail in a responsible manner. There were actually check stations stopping vehicles of hunters and checking their possession numbers for quail. Wardens would often hang out at various deer check stations and listen to reported devious activities and often spot check known violators to keep them on the straight and narrow. Yes, it was a PITA to get checked while out hunting but the deer numbers came up very fast. I just don't see that kind of dedication to management from the department anymore. Their lackidaisy tude is rawnchy at this point. I honestly believe I could kill deer all year around here and never be scrutinized...and do it easily. It's gross.
I've not been checked in years and hunt WY, OK and KS each year. When I was young there were check stations throughout Wyoming where I grew up but there was not enough money in the budget to maintain those stations. Game and Fish departments have a difficult job keeping everyone happy, but it really frustrates me when they pull some knucklehead moves that throw money away. Equally as bad are land owners who think they are game managers and do more harm than good. Some are very good but some who failed at managing their cattle, sheep, hog and horse operations decide to manage the wildlife and really screw things up. I have several friends who are ranchers and have seen it go both ways. It seems the best way to manage wildlife has to be start with the G&F departments.
I couldn't read the article here at work, but here's some of my thoughts. #1 We should probably re-evaluate the unlimited doe tags in most northern counties. #2 Our out of state tag prices should be equal to that of our neighboring states. Right now Missouri is attractive to out of state hunters because we are way cheaper than Kansas, Iowa and Illinois. #3 The antler restiction does work. It makes people think before they shoot. Are there really nice young deer that meet the 4pt, sure, but there's no end all be all. There's no restrictions that will be easy for people follow that will only result in mature bucks being taken. The quality of bucks on my land has increased dramatically over the last 5 years. Part of that quality increase has to be credited to the antler restriction rules. #4 I would be OK with moving rifle season off the rut, and I would be OK with moving opening archery back to October 1st. #5 Hunters need to manager themselves. If you kill 10 deer a year and don't hunt in an area that can support that, you are not doing anyone any good. #6 Check stations are inefficient and inconvenient for everyone. I would be more in favor of random checks by conservation employees. When you call in your telecheck, you could be selected for a random check and it could tell you that the conservation agent will contacting you to verify your deer. Or, with all the technology we have today, maybe a requirement to provide a picture of the hunter and their kill. #7 We need a bounty on coyotes. Something to get people back into trapping them. There's just not enough people hunting or trapping them today to keep the population down. They kill a lot of fawns. We really don't know how many mature deer they kill, but I can guarantee they stress the deer, and that can lead to other causes of death as well.
Yep.....MDC has spent millions upon millions buying land in MO. Why waste the money on focusing on being the largest land owner in the state. The money would be far better spent in an annual budget actually managing wildlife. A lot of this MDC land is also not accessible for hunting by the public so to those who will whine that we need public land...I'm talking about millions of acres that are inaccessible. Yes, they waste money hand over fist. Like all government agencies, they are more of a money eating machine than anything else.
@Skywalker I agree the antler restriction does help....but it's slow and sloppy. I'm not talking about any new restriction in regards to taking mature deer. Personally I don't like restrictions or dictator rule of law....I like encouragement. There has to be a way to encourage people to take mature deer and reward them for contributing to positive management. Start a statewide recognition of achievement club or something that hunters will think is cool to participate in for recognition. Easy and cheap to use in conjunction with the point restriction. We'll have to agree to disagree with check stations, I don't want some yahoo department employee dropping by my home to spot check me. I'd far rather deal with a little inconvenience of taking my deer into town and getting it checked legally at my convenience. I did it for years and never had a seconds complaint about having to bother with it. KS has a pic telecheck, I'd still rather just take the deer someplace physically and get it done with. Agree strongly with yote bounties and coons as well. Raccoons are the grizzly bear of the MO woods. A 20-30 pound boar coon is just about as capable of killing a young fawn as a yote and they are a b#tch on quail and turkey nests and poults.
I like the idea of a recognition program. On the check, I don't want them to come to my house and check either, but it would really just be the threat of that might help keep people honest. The real problem isn't people cheating on telecheck anyways. It's people that kill the deer and don't report it at all. There's really no way to enforce that one. There does need to be more agents, and they need to be required to do an investigation on every possible poaching call they get. It does happen, I know a kid that got busted for not checking in several deer, but I would agree that there's just not enough agents to go around.
Great discussion and I am for everything that has already been said. This is the first year that I didn't harvest a deer in 15 years. Sure I'm picky and hold out for mature bucks but doe sightings were down as well. I do most of my hunting in NW MO where deer should be plentiful. I'm in favor of adopting many practices that Iowa has in place and going from there.
I love what you guys are doing here. Some of these ideas seem spot on. I am a college student majoring in conservation biology with my dream being to become a member of MDC. I love seeing people approaching problems this way instead of just complaining. And its nice to see people active in my home state of MO. Hopefully one day in the near future ill be able to answer all of your questions. Until then I'm right here with you guys lol
Everything is about $$$$ all tag sales orientated here in mo. But the conservation is selling tags and still fat and happy they don't care that we are not killing deer maybe if we have un filled tags we could get a refund on them they would care. As far as tele-check goes the agents are spot checking people that are close to them one showed up here a half hour after I checked a turkey online.they sit atop the over passes on the hwy and watch for deer in the back of trucks coming home on the rifle opener and pull them over just up the hwy a short distance.
I have said for years that bowhunters should be able to take two bucks with a bow prior to gun season. Every year I kill a buck early and then miss some awesome buck hunting because I am waiting for the gun opener to shoot another buck. I hunt public ground and trying to kill a good buck after gun season with a bow is very difficult. I wish I could use that 2nd tag in the heart of the rut.
Actually, I don't think cost of tags is the issue, because I'd hunt either of those 3 states (regardless of cost) before I'd hunt Missouri if they had over the counter tags instead of a draw. Just saying.
