It has been a great thread, Muzzyman. If you leased land and licensed it to hunters, since money is green, it would all depend on your demand. If there is a lot of demand, then you can afford to discriminate in favor of more responsible hunters. Otherwise you would be stuck with the novices. Dollars and cents.
I agree to a point. But, if a new of inexperience hunter shoot way beyond his capabilities, he will do it anyways whether his sees it on tv or not. I don't think that will encourage even the most dumbest to attempt an 80+ yard shot just because he saw someone els do it. he might jump off a bridge because he saw someone jump. Also, I saw the same show. What a great shot. I've seen Michael take difficult shots because he IS a very capable shooter. He went there sighted in for very long shots before he left. As like prong horn hunters know that they should do before they go out. I saw Lee Lakosky shoot a prong at 70 yards. he also is a very capable shooter. I lived in and hunted in Alaska for 5 years. I shot 6 caribou with a rifle. This one particular 1987 in Egegik, Alaska trip I used my .243 Remington 700 BLD. The largest bullet made at that time was a 105grain round nose that I reloaded myself. I had 13 guns which I reloaded and shot on a regular basis. I went to this particular trip with two other Amy guys. Bill had his 30-06 and his friend had a 300 Win. Mag. My point? Well, I dropped 3 caribou in there tracks out of the Beaver Heard that day with the tiny .243. Something probably no one uses on caribou. But because I KNEW myself as a shooter and my reloads that the well placed and ONLY deliberate well placed shot that they would go down. They say that Caribou Die Easy. And they really do.
Hey! I want to meet you at the GTG! Will you be there? You so right! I used to be on a rifle competition circuit in the Amy. And what good is it that I can shoot out to 300 meters when that's the norm? When I'd shoot out to 1000+. Well, that's unethical!! Really??? About the shows. Why do we watch them? is it to sit there and grumble and bad mouth them because we're above all that? If you can't get ANYTHING positive out of watching them then...
Very good information! I see your point about guys are either going to take the hero shots or not, regardless of what's on TV. I think my point has changed some on this thanks to logical, good posts by yourself and some others on this thread. Perhaps I look for or expect too much out of these shows. I know I have actually. In my mind, I feel that Waddell, or any other hunting personality should at least talk about the shot more afterwards, informing me or anyone else watching why he was able to take a shot like that. This probably goes back to a lot of my disgust with hunting TV these days. It's more entertainment than it is about teaching or "secret" sharing. Like I said before. Around here, I know way too many boneheads who would take a shot like that on TV to heart and think its the norm. We already heard and seen this when the crossbows were legalized in PA, with guys thinking they just gained 50 yards in range by just picking one up. Make no mistake, it was a great shot. Something I probably would never attempt or be capable of. ( I have a hard enough time hitting 10!) Kudos to him for a great shot.
The first thing that I think at least some people don't realize is that the size of your target matters a lot. Just speaking in terms of indoor shooting at stationary targets, a 40 yard shot at an 8'' pie plate is no different than an 80 yard shot at a 16'' pie plate. There are other variables in hunting, however. The longer the time that the arrow is in the air, the more opportunity the animal has to move. The longer distances also increases the possibility that the wind will change or that there is a variation in the wind between you and your target. Obviously, the penetration of the arrow will be lower at longer distances because the arrow has expended more of its energy in the air. Lastly, you can use your 20 yard pin if the animal is at 24 yards, but can you really use an 80 yard pin if the animal is at 84 yards? The vertical drop of the arrow between 80 and 84 yards will be much greater than betweent 20 and 24 yards. This means there is a lot more guesswork and hold over in long shots. Also, who in the world keeps an 80 yard pin? My guess is that Waddel had a 50 or 60 yard pin and he was just holding over the animal and lobbing arrows. I saw the video, and I thought it was an unethical shot.
Like the man said ....."if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss." Sun Tzu Maybe Waddell knows himself and the target; or maybe it makes for good TV. :D I know I'm not going to Alaska or Canada and try to drive across a frozen river just because Hugh did it on IRT. RC
An animal grazing such as this one is very unlikely to move. Imo less than a whitetail ducking at 15 yards. Penetration at that distance is a non issue as you could plainly see on the video. Arrow penetration doesn't drop as drastically as many think. The arrow has absolutely no wobble at this point as well and will enter the animal straight. Time in the air is still less than a second so that isn't the a huge deal either. He clearly explained he was stacking pins. Say your max pin is 50 and you want to take a 70 yard shot. Draw back and put the 50 on the target and see where your 30 is. Then just move your 50 to where the 30 was. Should be real close to dead on. Many field shooters have done this for years. I also doubt they have a bunch of misses or wounded animals they don't show but who knows. I've seen plenty if misses on camera. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
I haven't read the 5 pages of responses so here goes. When I started hunting I had only watched 10 hunting shows tops. None of which were with a bow. I hadn't been around bows before I started hunting with one and my knowledge o hat they and even I was capable of was limited and distorted at best. I took an 80yd shot shooting at the first deer I ever shot at. It hit the ground just under her belly. Am I proud of it? Nope. I had no idea that it was an unethical shot. I really didn't see deer as anything but that. Do I now? heck no!! I did these things out of pure ignorance and inexperience. Not out of watching a show! Since then, I have matured as a hunter and become much more educated. It all thanks to forums, the Internet and magazine articles. Not celeb T.V. Hunters and huntresses. When hunters do things like this on TV, they should at least be responsible enough to communicate the importance of experience and knowing your limits. It also should be conveyed that this is not something the average hunter can or should do. --- I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?tplk1e
Great post, should of had his muzzleloader. to me a 60yd shot with a bow should be about max for anyone. just because of the speed. don't care if you can hit dimes at that range it still takes a second to get there and a animal can move at the sound of the shot. jmo
This isn't about respect for the animal as much as its about the message this sends to the rest of the bowhunting world. Do we really want to start thinking that shots of this distance aren't out of the ordinary and that its common place? WE are not going to think that this would EVER be an ordinary shot. Michael CAN do it. Long ago in a stadium, Uncle Ted did a demonstration of HIS shooting skills. At 80 yards he shot a squirrel target dead on. The average, like most all of us will shoot what we know we can, giving the many conditions. The very few can shoot beyond what average Joe Bow Hunter can. What's ethical with a rifle? A bow? A spear? A dart? A boomerang? Common!!!
I think It's a bunch of BS but guess what, welcome to bow hunting In this era. While at archery shops this Is all I hear people talk about (taking 50+ yard shots). Don't matter If It's newbies or vets, they all say It. Makes me sick. I can't hardly stand going to archery shops anymore for this very reason.
Let me ask you a simple question? Why does it bother YOU so much? Fred Bear made much less desirable shots in his day and age and was considered an icon so why is it now such a bad image for a qualified archer/hunter to take an animal within what was obviously in HIS effective range under the circumstances? I have tons of respect for you as I do for many others on the oppsoite side of this issue but why you let it bother you baffles me. I went outside last night at 66 yards and stacked pins. Max pin is 44 yards on my bow. After having 3 beers I kneeled down on my knees and hit about 3" low of where I was holding on 1 shot.
If you really don't know what your talking about it is always best to remain quiet. So many try to push their preconceived ideas and limitations onto others. Your words are not going to change anyones practices and when it comes down to making choices it is only you and the game your pursuing. I don't condone long range poke and hopes but see no problem with a man making an educated decision when and when not to take a shot.
1st of all, how big do you all think a caribou Is? Their pretty small, not nearly the size of an elk. 2nd of all, being a great shot Isn't everything. After seeing with my own eye's many, many times stump shooting with my compound buddies at ranges 50 to 75 yards these animals have tons of time to move on a 330 fps arrow. I was not Impressed In the least with these fast compounds after their arrows went beyond 40 yards. It was like a brake was put on them. No one can tell me they know exactly what an animal will do either when It's browsing. To say It's not risky Is an understatement. Bowhunting Is an up and close hunt no matter how fast these compounds ever get. People push the limits and their going to loose more then their going to win. Funny thing Is we never hear much about the bad stories. Wounding animals happens but I guess I hate seeing animals wounded on silly/lower percentage shots. That's why It bothers me. I too have respect for you Tfox. You know that.
I may be wrong on this one and someone please correct me if I am and don't just correct me, explain to me why I'm wrong. T-Fox I know you know way more than I do about this subject but, since my last debate I have done my homework and am starting to get somewhat of a grasp on arrow design an the importance of it. An arrow flies straighter at greater distances and to a certain extent (given its heavy enough) carries almost as much momentum. This is due to the arrow flying straighter with less vibration and flex causing less resistance. In turn causing a less distorted, more true entry and has as great if not greater penetration than a shorter shot. I know at 50yd my arrows penetrate deeper than 30yd. I would think that with a higher arch on the downward part the arrow would gain some momentum it lost given of course it is a heavier arrow with the right amount of FOC such as my current set up of around 13% in which I get a good 4"-6" more penetration on average (on foam deer) at 40yd with only 10gr more but I have 5+% more FOC than my last set up. With today's bows being as quiet as they are I highly doubt at 80yd there would be much noise to be heard. I have videos of me shooting my Element at 75yd with my camera sitting on top of my bag and you have to turn the volume all the way up to hear the bow go off. The arrow made almost zero noise until impact either an that's when I was using noisy Quickspins. I'm not saying that the animal couldn't have moved at all and I'm not condoning a new hunter/shooter taking a shot like this at all. What I am saying is with the equipment available today and I feel certain Waddle has the best of the best and set up correctly to make a shot like this, these shots are a much safer bet than they were 20 years ago. Bows are more efficient and so are arrows than they ever have been. What is the purpose in all this? Faster heavier arrows which leads to much better results such as being able to make farther shots as well as more success at closer distances and more accurate shots to an extent of course. I'm mean really what is the point in these new fast, quiet bows if the limits are still set at 25yd and under?? --- I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5m3zxr
