Should I make a big deal if my Broadhead are about 1 inch too high off my target? I tried broadheading tuning and it didnt work for me, since the fieldpoints were not hitting my target after tuning my broadhead. I must really suck at this!!!! Thanks Michael
I will try again tomorrow. I just put a new rest on it today. I was mainly adjusting that. I didnt touch my sight. I will let you know
The best explanation of how to do it step by step.... http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460 I posted this link earlier today on another thread. It's been viewed over 100K times for very good reason.
I just went through this about a month or two back, and got tremendous help from the guys on this site. You can easily access some of those posts by clicking on my profile. So, for what its worth, here is my advice. If you have time, go back to the beginning and make sure you are tuned all the way. I am talking bare shaft and paper tuning if possible. The directions in the Easton guide (assuming you have read that) and other threads will work, but they might take some time. In my case, I literally went back to basics and even spent some time making sure my arrows were correct length, spine and weight. Here are a couple of things I learned, and they might inspire some debate, but I know they worked for me. First, not all broadheads tune the same way. Some will naturally follow the field tip tune better than others. In my case, the ones that were the closest out of the package were Slick Tricks. I would argue it is a worthwhile investment in getting broadheads that are easy to tune in order to perfect your tuning technique. Something else, and again might inspire some debate, but it worked for me, is I was unclear on the actual broadhead tuning stage. Meaning that, in my case, my broadheads were flying left. So, when I adjust my rest to the right, the field points also shifted right along with my broadheads. So, I thought something was wrong. I had expected that every adjustment of the rest, that my field points would have the same point of impact. What someone in the industry pointed out to me was that, although the field points shifted, the variance, or distance away from the broadheads was less. So, making very small adjustments eventually brought them together, then I moved my sight. The part about the small adjustments is key, I mean, I was just barely moving my rest each time. Having said all of that, your broadheads don't sound that far off, and maybe you could get by with simply moving your sight. Its probably obvious to some, but if you are going to move your sight to adjust, don't move the whole sight, but rather each individual pin. You have some variance there that may or may not be consistent with the drop you experience with field points, so you will have to adjust each pin. I struglled with paper tuning at first since I really didn't have a good way to do it, and didn't want to build a frame. What I ended up doing, and was fairly simple was this. I had an old "Home For Sale By Owner" sign - I think I got it at Wal Mart, and it had a wire frame on it -- so kind of the same size/shape as a realtors "For Sale" sign. I just popped out the sign part, taped in some packing paper and was ready to do. I just need to crouch or kneel. I would also advise that if you do simply move your sights, go ahead and run a paper tune just to make sure that you don't have some funky flight patterns that you aren't picking up with your eye. Probably also want to make sure that when your arrows are hitting the target, they aren't entering at some extreme angle, either up/down or side to side. You shouldn't but if you are cautious like me, its just another check point to gain confidence. Like I said, some might argue some of this, and I admit when it comes to bows, I am an amateur who is still learning. I can say these tips worked for me.
I just went outside try it again. I moved sight a little down, left and right. You name it. My fieldpoints were hitting the right target . I tried out my new muzzy. they were 3 inch to the right of my target. I moved rest a little to left. It went farther to the right. I've been trying too hard. Reading all the peoples post and guides. I've basically given up. I just dont want to move, my rest or sight. Going with my crossbow. I've wasted money on new rests. I've tried limbdriver, qad rests, wb, and others. I have the right arrows and everything. Im putting my bow away for a week. Its so frustrating. I'm going to wait till I find a professional archer and take lessons. It cost me enough headaches and I feel like slamming my z7 on the floor and breaking it.. I need to take a break from my compound. I've had enough. Thanks for the tips and suggestion. I appreciate it. Mike
Wow pin...its really not that complicated. If youre shooting high...move your sight UP. Chase the arrow. This is where youre confusing yourself. If youre hitting High, move your sight up, if youre hitting low, move your sight down, if youre hitting left, move the sight left, if youre hitting right, move the sight to the right... No wonder you werent getting anywhere. Common mistakes by beginners. Ive helped some friends really improve their setup skills and their shooting skills over the summer and they took in all the information I have learned over the last 15 years not only from hanging out with other archers and at proshops and helping out a pro shops but alot from this site. Dont give up so quickly. That was your first mistake. Remember chase the arrow. Once you have it dialed in, check your flight by paper tuning. Follow the Easton Tuning Guide. Adjusting just your sights is just a band aid. Tune your arrows to your bow and vicea versa. Become more than comfortable with your equipment, sleep with it if you have to, you need to know your equipment before stepping into the woods with it. Be confident not only in your equipment but in yourself as well. This will make you a better bow hunter and archer. They are two different things after all. Good luck. Theres some awesome advice on here that you should take to heart and take seriously.
I have to agree. Nice visuals on the archery talk thread. Just have to make very small adjustments and recheck field points until it all comes together. Best of luck.
I have to say, being a target shooter only, that this doesn't make sense to me. Two arrows - one field point, one broadhead. Otherwise identical, shot from same bow. Assume the bow is on a mechanical shooter to eliminate human shooting variation. The field point lands on one point, the BH lands 4 inches to the left. If repeated, all results the same. Assuming that the bow was properly set up with field points and they consistently hit the same vertical plane at 10, 20, 30, 40 yards; just at different horizontal planes due to increased distance (with no elevation change in sight). At this point we know the left/right setting on the arrow rest is correct. It seems to me that if you try the above listed BH tuning advise, you may be able to get both the field tip and BH to hit the same point by changing the left/right adjustment of the arrow rest, but you taken the bow out of tune. It is now only correct for whatever the distance you were shooting from when you made this change. That's why you always adjust the rest windage before adjusting the sight. Which leads me to this question - Why even try to match the point of impact of a BH and a field point? Why not just tune/sight your bow with the arrows and tips with which you are going to hunt? I understand shooting BH's into a target may damage it, but you only need one arrow and a dull BH won't effect it's flight. I don't doubt by following the steps described you can get BHs and FPs to land on the same spot, but if they were landing on different spots prior to the arrow rest windage change, you haven't changed the flight of the arrows, you've just changed where they intersect at a fixed yardage. I'd be curious if rather than change the arrow rest's windage setting, you were to either move up or back in increments of 5 yards, and see if the points of impact merge. You've essentially achieve the same result, but at a different yardage. I just can't reconcile how with only changing the arrow rest's windage - you change the flight path of only one arrow and not the other. If the answer is you are changing the path of both - then it seems you proved my point. You've only changed at which distance they merge.
The reason they don't shoot even is that the broadheads tend to plane more than fp (fp don't plane bc no blades). The flechings correct fp flight and not as well with bh. imagine flechings on both ends of the arrow you get the arrow perfectly aligned front and back hope that visual helps
This is where you fell apart. Your assumption is that your tuning method (walk-back) yields a "perfect" tune every time. It does not. It often yields a tune which is good enough for target shooting but is not quite perfect enough to shoot a broadhead straight. Broadhead tuning after the walk-back tuning provides a more precise tune. I consider walk-back and paper tuning as course tuning. After that I fine tune with bare shaft and/or broadhead.
Range, As stated BHs steer the arrow more than FPs. It's not making 2 paths intersect to get correct arrow flight, which you are correct and would be off at different distances, but getting both to a point where the fletching can correct the flight path on both arrows at approximately the same time which leads to the same flight path after correction by the vanes. Its confusing and took me a while to understand as well.
I can't agree with you here - only with respect to target/field points - I've not shot a broadhead, so my argument is theoretical. It seems unlikely that such a large number of experienced archers embrace BH tuning without there being at least some truth to it. Regardless, I still can't reconcile why it would work. Bear with me and read on. When I tune my bow using the walk back method, all shots (excluding shooter error and wind gusts) land on the target on a vertical plane. I shoot from 20m to 90m. All shots land on a vertical line that passes from the 12 o'clock position through the center X to the 6 o'clock position if I make no elevation adjustments on the sight regardless of my distance to the target. You can't get "more perfect". Shooting consistently tight groups at 90m demands precision. And here's where you've got to take my word, I don't just get the tuning close enough, it's got to be perfect. Perfect means any continued adjustment in either direction will result in some shots not impacting on the vertical plane. Period. From that point, any change to the windage - which is what BH tuning is - will cause the arrow to travel at a different angle relative to the center shot of the bow. If that adjustment is moving the rest to the left, then at 10 yards the point of impact with be to the left of center. At 20 yards it will be closer to center, at 25 yards it may fall dead center, at 30 yards slightly to the right, at 40 yards further to the right and at 90 yards it may completely be off the target to the right. If the adjustment was to the right, the results would be opposite. If you only shoot at 25 yards, then it will appear that the bow is now tuned. Are you saying when you tune your bow with FPs and get it so that the center shot/arrow rest is set so that you're point of impact is as I described above and you then start shooting BHs and begin BH tuning, making adjustments to the arrow rest windage so that your BHs land at the same point as your FPs - and lets say you do this at 20 yards - that you can then have your BHs and FPs land at the same spot at 10 yards and 40 yards? If your answer is yes, and I certainly take your word for it, I would accept it, but I couldn't explain it. And here's where I'd ask your indulgence in accepting that just saying it is better or more perfectly tuned does not explain it. A reasonably balanced and properly spined arrow will travel in a straight line left to right (horizontal plane), and in a declining arc (vertical plane) if shot level to the ground. In contrast, a baseball pitched as a curve ball will travel in an arc in both planes; elevation and horizontal. Now - and here's where I can't make the leap on why BH tuning works as described - if viewed from directly above the archer, the BH and FP will both travel in a straight line, albeit slightly different horizontal angles. They'll both travel in an arc in the vertical plane, though the BH's arc (trajectory) will likely be below that of the FP due to increased drag of the BH. If we agree that moving the the arrow rest in either direction will cause the arrow's path to change in that direction, how would get them to land on the same point? My only explanation - and this is slightly different than my previous post - is that if the bow was not perfectly tuned with respect to it's center shot when the archer began BH tuning - that the difference in where the FP and BH land is more pronounced. The archer then begins BH tuning and brings both BH and FP into correct tune/center shot - but still end up with the BH and FP impacting at different, but now acceptably closer points. If this was so, then it would appear that the adjustment brought the different points of impact together. This would make a great episode for Mythbusters.
Everything that's mentioned above explains why I shoot broadheads only. I read of guys pulling their hair out trying to get BHs to fly like their FPs. Why? I simply get my BHs (practice blades) going where they need to be and forget about it! I don't hunt with FPs, so why would I practice with them? You might replace your target more often, but I think it's worth it because you're practicing with what you'll actually be shooting. No surprises! jmho
I had this same problem. I was shooting spot on with field tips, but my broadheads were going to the left. This is because I am shooting an arrow that has a stiff spine. In addition to shooting a short draw length of 27 inches, I am also shooting only 60#. I need a 400 spine, but since I bought my arrows when I was shooting a 28"/70# bow, I was using a 340 spine. Instead of going and buying new arrows and completely retuning my bow (I'm changing bows next year most likely), I just went ahead and tuned my bow to shoot broadheads and said forget about the field points. It's hunting season, and as long as I can hit good with my broadheads, I will do just fine from the stand. I was uneducated when I bought this bow this year and didn't know what a walk back tune was. I am going to make a point from this point on as soon as I get a new bow, I am going to assure that it is properly tuned. I am going to go back to my 70#/28" which is what is comfortable for me and I'm probably going to switch to Rage broadheads next season, which fly like field points. Simple put, I don't think shooting 1 inch high is a big deal. Just aim a tad bit low and leave it alone if it were me personally. My 30 yard pin is about 1 inch high, but IMO that's a good thing in case I have to shoot at about 35 yards. I won't have to guess shoot so much and I know if I'm perfectly at a 30 yard shot, to just aim a tad bit low.
Here is why Broadhead tuning works. Both images are from above looking at the arrow as it flies towards the target. The e bow is not pictured so just work with me here. Assuming your center shot isn't aligned Perfect your arrow will release out of your bow with a slight sideways trajectory. The BH increase the duration that it takes the fletching to correct this poor trajectory, therefore leaving it further off the target then the arrow with FPs. After BH tuning your center shot IS almost perfect and the fletching can correct the BH arrow in just about as long as it takes to correct the FP arro causing both to hit at almost the same point. BH tuning is just perfecting the center shot by extending the time your arrow flies in that slightly off trajectory. If I am thinking correct it tunes the same as making the vertical line and shooting back to 90 yards without needing to shoot that far out. If I am wrong can someone please point it out so I can correct my way of thinking.
Yeah, it's simple but it gets to the point; It takes a more perfectly tuned rig to shoot a broadhead straight than a field point and the field points are forgiving enough that you can't use them to detect the imperfections in your tuning. It's like trying to use a magnifying glass to examine stuff that you need an electron microscope to see. Under the magnifying glass it looks fine so you call it good and move on. Face it range649, it just doesn't take a well tuned rig to shoot field points well. Hell, one of the best tournament archers I've known purposefully shot his bow with the arrows coming off the rest 2" high/left to get them out away from the bow ASAP. To win tournaments all that rig had to do was to shoot every arrow exactly as bad as it shot the previous one. Put a broadhead on one of those arrows and he would have been in big trouble though.
MHSfootball86, I think your logic is flawed here. The vanes do correct an arrows flight, but - they don't correct the direction, they correct the arrow's attitude: pitch and yaw. The difference is, as soon as the arrow has passed the arrow rest, the bow no longer imparts any influence on the arrow. So, if the arrow rest is set left of the "true" center shot, the arrow will strike the target somewhere to the left of the center line of the target (assuming here the bow was lined up with the center of the target, and when I say the bow is lined up, I mean the plane created by three points: nocking point and the cams axles center-line). So, in this case, the vanes won't steer the arrow to the right for several reasons. 1. It doesn't know where the target is 2. Unlike a guided missile, it doesn't have movable control surfaces 3. It's spinning, therefore distributing it's force in all directions equally. What the vanes will correct is the arrow's attitude. By attitude I mean tip high, tip low, nock left, nock right. It does this in two ways. 1. The vanes create aerodynamic drag which acts against any yaw imparted by the arrow rest too far left or right, or the nock point too high or too low. 2. The vanes, if helical or offset, will cause the arrow to spin. Spinning along it's axis creates a gyroscopic effect. The gyroscopic effect resists external torque. Combine the two, and the vanes will normalize - settle on the mean trajectory and tend to keep it in that direction. In your drawing, the projected trajectory of both arrows take a slight right hitch. There is no force to cause that - it just wouldn't happen. The vanes would settle any wobble due to an off center line attitude as it left the bow and tend to keep the arrow in that trajectory, but I can't think of anything that would cause it to steer the arrow towards the target. Incidentally, vanes generally begin to effect the attitude of the arrow by about the 5 yard point (depending on vane size). That is why you paper tune within that distance. The paper tune identifies off center attitude deviations by taking a snapshot of the arrow's position in the form of a tear the arrow creates as it passes through the paper. Paper tune at 10 or 15 yards, and all you'd get would be bullet hole tears, provided the arrow was properly spined and not horribly out of balance. KodiakArcher, we're just going to disagree on this point. Enjoyed the debate fellas. See you at the range.
Range imagine the arrow is left of center when shot. The fletching ends up trailing the tip because it catches air and is forced left behind the tip. Now imagine you have 3 small wings on the tip. When shot left of center the angle will still force the front left causing it to drift left until the fletching falls directly behind it at which point the steering of the BH is negated. The closer you get that angle to being perfect the less amount of time the arrow has to be pushed left until the fletching falls directly behind the broadhead. You have to remember that it's not "steering" just correcting yaw as you said. But yaw will force the arrow off and adding the extra set of wings on the front only exaggerates that affect due to more wind resistance at the front of the arrow.
