I feel like I am still really in the minority. Though over the last three years or so I have been gravitating to a heavier arrow than I ever have in my earlier years Archery hunting. Finally jumped in with both feet this last hunting season. A higher FOC 650 grain total arrow weight is what I settled on. Heavy 650 grain total arrow weight arrow & single bevel BH was a first for me last fall. Terminal results were good enough ill be using the same or a very similar set-up again next fall.
There are hundreds of threads on this topic, it gets discussed a lot. Half of them turn into arguments. You are far from alone in the heavy arrow fad right now, the Ranch Fairy has a big audience for sure (among others). I have had no troubles in getting two holes through elk for the 30 years I've hunted them, with arrow weights from 390-430 grains and doing between 250-275 fps with a 3 blade (sharp!) fixed on them. I will never get the super heavy arrow thing, but am not so stupid that I can't recognize that different people like different things. Too each their own, if it makes you happy and confident, then that's all that matters. What I think means squat. I am curious how much of a struggle you find it to be to buy a target that will actually stop your arrows so you can sight in though. You have some serious energy going on.
I can see it for those with high draw weights and those that routinely hit close to or on shoulder. I Personally can't draw over 50# and am set at 48 for longer holds. This said, I naturally shoot close to shoulder. I'm a instinct shooter and my eye just goes there, Don't ask tried everything. This has ended in shoulder hits as far out as 30 yrds and deer dropped in their tracks. I've had shots not go all the way through and feel relief. A sharp broad head bouncing around and hitting trees is a blender when not in bone. SO... a SHARP broad head is all I care about.
I am a fan of the middle ground. My arrows set ups are in my signature. Heavier than many white tail set ups but not extremely heavy. Since going with this set up a couple of years ago, I think I have only failed to get pass through one deer. That was this past weekend with a gut shot that I think stuck in the offside back leg. But, I can't be sure I never found the arrow or the deer. I lost a couple of deer with sub 450 grain arrows that failed to pass through.
NOPE !! ... I know what works for me and I am NOT a fan of the heavy arrow/EFOC craze, and go mid weight and keep my FOC around 10-12% .... 432 grs at 287 fps using a good fixed head and I'll kill any deer/pig I encounter with a good shot, . I'd go from a 100 gr head to a 125 gr, which would put me at the 450ish mark and use that for any critter including Elk and big bear .. I like staying 7-7.5 grs per lb ... hell, guys using traditional equip and arrows in the 500gr range are blowing thru big critters and I have more KE/momentum/speed than most .... I use fixed head primarily, using smaller dia. mech's on occasion (1 1/8" - 1 1/2") and still get pass thrus or at least two holes ... the buck I killed this past season (see pic), I hit the leg bone that attaches to the scapula and totally destroyed it and got full penetration sticking out the opposite side using a Slick Mag at 26 yds ... Ive taken multiple 200lb+ bucks with arrows from 380 to the 432 grs I use now... 1/4ing away shots, a almost head on shot when a large buck turned while working a scrape, the arrow was leaving the bow and couldnt call it back, got penetration to the vanes/nock at 30yds and the 4 blade Wac 'em destroyed the heart and everything past it . ..... btw, Ive been at 60 -63lbs draw weight for quite a few years now , no need nor want to go heavier ..
the 205lber that turned to work the licking branch as I released, was broadside at a scrape ... 30 yds, penetrated to the vanes & nock/62 lbs/Ritual 33/Wac 'em 4 blade/432 grs/285fps .. awesome internal damage ... will say, not a preferred hit ...
Regarding the target. This is the 1st year I tried the Heavier 650 grain TAW. I have foam targets for testing broad heads & penetration is generally just short of the fletching. Field tips are larger than in diameter than options I would have used in the past. penetration & removal from targets at our public range has been near what I was used to prior. I have been on the fence wanting to try this set up for 5 years or so now. The Single bevel 2 blade is where my reservations were the greatest. Coming away from a long history of using 1.5" cut diameter mechanicals, this was a mentally challenging switch. No way that small cut diameter 2 blade, could compare - with the effectiveness of the 1.5" cut diameter 3 blade mechanicals was a thought process that was difficult to overcome. Last fall I set my mind to it to give the 650 grain TAW arrow weight setup a try with the 200 grain single bevel up front. First deer under my belt now, with the magnum arrow. Utilizing the 1.13" cut diameter 2 blade did not disappoint. I am inching towards becoming a believer in the system. Only a sample of one in my case, so not much I know. What surprised me was the terminal effectiveness of the BH. What I mean is the deer being much less startled after being hit behind the shoulder w a perfect broad side shot. He covered 35 yards before dropping. What was most surprising to me was he walked the majority of the distance before piling up. Suppose that is a COC thing. Only other deer I experienced anything similar with was when using a Bear COC double bevel head 35 years ago. So my confidence in that little 2 blade has made a good jump in the right direction.
Deer with an arrow sticking out of them will travel farther then they will with a complete pass thru, (freek out factor), all things being equal. A heavier arrow,smaller head helps in that factor.
I shoot similar set ups, mid 500s. Never fail to punch 2 holes in a deer - even hard angled front to back. I won't go back to 400s. Yeah you can kill a pile of deer with them, but you will never say 'I wish I hadn't been pushing so much weight'.
I'll kick this horse... I feel that every rig has a sweet spot, with all factors considered. I have found that I can go to about 600gr set up. I used to shoot about 350 with a large cut mech thinking as many do bigger the cut the better (faster) the kill. For the last 3 seasons though I have been 550+ with a solid fixed blade annihilator. The pen even when meeting obstacles (scapula) is amazing. I'll speculate further and say that a bow that is perfectly tuned and a shooter that is perfectly consistent is WAY more important that rocking a ranch fairy shirt (even though I do like him) Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
I don't buy into all that BS to be honest. When I first started using carbon arrows for hunting (when they first came out.. yes I'm that old), I didn't even think about arrow weight. Just shot what flew the best. I zipped through dozens of whitetails with this setup. I later learned that my total arrow weight was 375gr. None of the deer in the freezer knew what it weighed. Fast forward to my current setups. I have gone up a bit in weight. I shoot a 60lb bow these days and my arrow weight is 450gr. I like a bit heavier arrow as it just makes the bow a little quieter, less vibe and in my opinion, more forgiving as the arrow is a little slower. I honestly believe guys are getting themselves in trouble with lighter arrow setups because they're trying to push too much broadhead. With all these mega cut expandables and giant fixed heads, you absolutely need more weight, both draw weight and arrow weight. The other component to this and something I also believe is an issue is tuning. A well tuned bow will push the arrow with more energy than one that the arrow is leaving the bow sideway. I have been shooting a Rage Trypan, 2" cut, the last few years and have had no issues. However, I think I'm going back to my old school Slick Trick fixed heads next year for simplicity. Bottom line is shoot a mid weight arrow out of a 60 plus pound bow and you won't have any issues with pretty much any broadhead or penetration.
dont care one bit for the Farm Pixy and as for Ashby .. pffft ! ... Ive been using carbons since Goldtip first hit the Market, waaaaay back in the day ... still use 'em ... I was shooting Steelheads, the XL's and Sidewinders, and Muzzy 4 blades .. arrows were in the 380-390gr range/260-280 fps depending on the bow at the time but a higher poundage back then to get those speeds (65-70lbs), never even cared about FOC then .... Now, I shoot 60-63lbs and get FASTER speeds ..... I built an arrow, weighed it and killed deer, a LOT of deer, BIG bucks and does and some big hogs ... never once did I lose one due to lack of penetration ... then I went to Slicks, Mags/Standards/Vipers and now Wicked Tricks with the occasional Wac'em 4 blade and nothing has changed ... still havnt killed a deer with the Exodus or the Grim Reapers that I started using (no shots at one yet when I had those heads on as I rotate thru my arrows/heads I have in the quiver) .... I still kill big deer/Bucks/Does and Hogs, I still get great penetration, the only diff is that I added 20grs with screw in wts to the front and am now shooting Velocity 300's instead of Hunter XT 400's and 340's and have settled into the 432 gr range, a tad heavier than earlier, and I'll still kill those critters and get great penetration .......
So, How long do we think this fad is going to stick around? No one has a crystal ball, though what do you suppose will be the catalyst to cause the Heavy high FOC arrow fad to go away? Do you suppose someone will do a study to prove we realize no benefit on penetration with a sharp BH with structural integrity, along with a stout arrow with structural integrity, that is flying true? Do you suppose that we will find the the suggestion that the 650 grain bone splitting threshold is less than credable?
over on AT (yea, THAT place) .. a guy by the handle enewman did some in-depth trials/studies and discounted much of the Ashby/Farm Pixy's gibberish, Ashby 'theory' was based on traditional equip and done on African game, no real science involved ... no one says a slightly heavier arrow dosnt penetrate, but the difference is minor when compared with medium weight arrows ... but many are way overboard into the EFOC/heavy arrow stuff ... the bows made today develop higher momentum/KE at lower poundage's than those of past years, thus saving ones shoulders, not to mention just how quiet they are compared to bows of 10 years ago, and the speeds/Momentum/KE of todays bows put traditional equipment in the dust, and the traditional guys get full penetration, there isnt a comparison. ..... not everyone has the skill to resharpen heads to a razors edge and many of the fixed/replaceable blade BH's out there are strong/sharp and very very accurate .... North American game isnt that hard to take down, really aren't, they are relatively thin skinned, smaller/thinner bones compared to African game ... match ones setup to the game you hunt, 7-10grs/inch with your bow weight, FOC 10-15%, use a good solid sharp head and go hunt ... I'm all for good solid medium weight arrows that gives me both speed and penetration, and for myself, I believe Ive found it .... https://www.archerytalk.com/threads/the-ashby-foundation-is-upset.5981613/
I worry more about the top two factors in the Ashby study which are best possible arrow flight and broad head durability. I don’t focus as much on arrow weight. I’m a big fan of the exodus broad head. Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
Exodus is a great head, I just started using them last season, havnt taken an animal yet with one however, the buck I killed in 2022 was with the venerable Slick Mag 100 gr which Ive killed well over a dozen deer with thru the years (bet Ive killed around 30 deer using various Slick Tricks).. .. I hope to kill with an Exodus full this season, if not it, back to my Wicked Tricks as I rotate thru my heads each sit ... ..
Over the years I have have not known the weight of my arrows for close to half of the the time I spent Archery hunting. In terms of weight I believe the Ashby foundation would consider my arrows to have ranged from a C to a B setup. While I was not aware of their grading system last fall, I had stepped up to a Single bevel longer Grizzly stick OVERKILL - Samurai - 200 Grain 2 blade single bevel. Ill need a much bigger sample than the one deer I took last fall to develop a clear understanding of what to expect going forward. Lets just say I was not disappointed seeing the deer collapse right at 35 yards from the point of impact. Seen enough similar accounts from others shooting similar equipment to have a strong feeling that I / we are on to something here. Simply will take a greater sample of deer put down with the single bevel 2 blades & the 650 grain TAW before I can share with more certainty that I am really confident in this set up. Thus far I am satisfied & looking forward to employing the same system next fall. Hopefully Ill have a opportunity to fill more than 1 Archery tag next fall.
Who knows? It will depend on the social media popularity of the person trying to push whatever opinion, combined with the listener's own experiences. As much as I hate the word "influencer", they are not wrong that they definitely influence people. For example, in my 30 some years of archery hunting I've had all kinds of things cause me to not put an animal in the freezer. The majority of my experiences have been elk, far and away. Lack of penetration is not high on the list. I've hit two elk in the "shoulder". One of them the arrow still made it in far enough to yield a recovery. The other one, maybe more penetration would've yielded a recovery, hard to say. But one animal in 30 years being a penetration issue, with the root cause really being a poor shot by me, just doesn't make me feel like my setup needs major adjusting. Now, if I had done a lot more hunting of whitetail, that are highly prone to moving before the arrow arrives, my opinion/experience might be quite different.
