Its June, there isn't much going on and I thought this was an interesting topic and something thats near and dear to me. Interested in everyone's thoughts. I'm an old timer by some standards. So I've watched the rise of hunting through the years and have seen the changes and trends. What was once a simple and pure form of recreation has been replaced by corporations and money driving success. I think the cost of hunting has spiraled out of control to the point where it absolutely is driving hunters away. But its not in the ways you might expect. The cost of gear is getting more and more expensive, but its not stopping most people from continuing to buy it. Hell me personally, I still have no issue dropping 1200 on a new bow, 400 on a sight, etc. Its my passion, my hobby and as long as I am financially capable of purchasing such things, I will continue. There are many who aren't as fortunate. There are many kids out there that have to save and scrounge to buy gear to get into the woods. What about them? Inflation and the general increase in cost of even entry level products is getting up there. Even the used market, which has exploded over the years, is pretty pricey. Now, do you need all the latest and greatest products to kill game? Nope, not even close. We've been harvesting animals all over the country with much less since the 1950s. You don't need to have the latest bow, sights, camo, etc. You don't need to own and manicure hundreds of acres of land to grow and have the opportunity at big bucks. I blame, in large part, the decline in hunters and the folks just throwing in the towel, on the TV Shows and the hunting corporations. They've been doing a fine job at brain washing people for years to think that the only way to kill big bucks is to have the latest gear and own and farm your own leases and property to grow and keep such animals close to home. They do this to make money. The Outdoor Channel personalities make me chuckle. They may as well be climbing into their stands in Nascar fire suits these days with all their company logos, etc on them. Every episode, without fail, is nothing more than an infomercial for product. Not a single one actually teaches the viewer tactics and good woodsmansship skills. They don't have to, or can't teach it. Their tactics is simple, farm the hell of the land, manipulate the deer herds to put them in front of treestands and wait. That being said, this is a huge reason why hunting costs have spiraled out of control. The industry (unfortunately hunting, something as primal and pure as it is has become a business) makes you believe that you have to do all these things that we see on TV to be successful. So now we have the corporate side buying up land at record prices, etc, since they're the only ones, backed by Mathews and Scent lok, etc, that can afford such land. You can't blame the land owners. Who wouldn't sell and lease their ground to the highest bidder? So the little guy is on the outside looking in when it comes to prime huntable land. The little guys are left to either knock on doors begging for permission, or hunting crowded public lands. Public lands are the bread and butter of most states and should be championed and cherished. But they're not. They're looked down upon. How many TV shows hunt public land? Then we turn to western hunting, where a guided hunt for most species ranges from 5K to 10K. Never mind sheep, only the very wealthy or those that have saved half their life will ever realize that dream hunt. Again, many have to turn to public land, DIY style hunting to get into the game out there. Again, most TV shows would never hunt and film on public land. I'm thankful to see a couple of groups hunting the way it should be, on public ground, in its purest form. Internet shows like the Hunting Public, the Hunting Beast, Whitetail Adrenaline are giving me hope. They talk tactics, they show the successes and more often than not, failures that make hunting... well... hunting. They are hunting in a fashion that anyone can do, not just the well sponsored elite. We need more of this so the common guy or girl and can mimic and aspire to get into the woods and not spend an arm and a leg doing so. These shows not only show good old fashioned hunting and crazy tactics at times, but they teach woodsmanship skills and by the looks of it, are having a blast doing it. The way hunting should be. The prices of gear is never going to come down. That cat is out of the bag. But when we stop pandering to the Outdoor Channel personalities, stop spending insane amounts of money on an acre of midwest soil and start hunting and promoting our public lands.. maybe more people will stay in the sport and less will leave.
if gas stays the way it is now thru this season, there will be less trips made by many, distance and even locally( say within 50 miles) .... gear is only going to go up, I just outfitted a new SR350, it wasnt cheap .. luckily clothing/boot/ accessory/stand-stick wise, I'm set for a while. I'll end up getting some BH's and small items ... 'cause of cost Ive given up on leasing for now, I'll stick with the public Ive hunted for years and I'll just have to tolerate the Elmer Fudd's on the place .. and that public isnt what it used to be either, at least around here ... pressure has been stupid for the last several years esp. with the gun guys now moving into "archery seasons" with those crossthingy's .... I'll continue doing what I do and only the lack of gas will keep me out of the woods ....
Costs are rising exponentially. But let's face it, it's a business and a big one at that. With the cost of fertilizer and subsequently veggies on the up tic expect more hunters. Which is great for the "cause" but the bigger the market the more the latitude for cost increases. Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Gas is of course a huge factor this year. I used to make an annual pilgrimage to the midwest to a camp that I loved going to. It was my two best buddies and my "great wives escape trip... lol). We're not going this year because of fuel costs. I made a post a while back about how I sort of reinvented myself a bit and am focusing on hunting the massive amounts of public land I have here in my own state of PA. We're fortunate here in that a lot of the public is hellish access and steep mountain terrain. All the Fuds are usually found less than a mile from the closest parking lot. Its pretty easy to get away from them. I've been scouting and shed hunting my butt off and based on sheds I've found and sign, I'm excited to get after it this year. I'm having a blast with my friends so far, something I can't say I was having when I was locked up on private land.
I'm in between client calls, so I'll play along on this one. The cost and complexity of everything has gone up - not just hunting equipment. And as you mentioned, cost isn't stopping those who are financially capable from participating in the market. Again, this can be applied to any hobby or recreation. Pick something, and you can see the cost of getting into the game is a lot greater than it was when we were young. My 10-year-old has a $300 baseball bat. I don't think all of my baseball equipment combined was $300 at his age. Yet, here we are. Gotta have a boogeyman to blame - may as well be those greedy corporations and those sellout TV personalities. Buncha jerks! First, I don't believe that marketing is the same as brainwashing. Second, I have no problem with people trying to make money. We all make money somehow, and part of the "American dream" is the ability to start a business, create a product, market and sell that product, and make money. Anyone who can do this and be successful should be applauded, not blamed. Out of curiosity - do you even subscribe to the Outdoor Channel anymore? And when was the last time you watch a hunting TV show? Admittedly, I don't have Outdoor Channel and haven't in years. It's also been years since I've watched any hunting programs anywhere outside of YouTube. However, this claim is nothing new - equating outdoor TV to NASCAR is something that's been done before. Yet, we have no tangible examples that anyone, let alone the majority, of outdoor TV people promote their sponsors this way. And without watching the shows, it's difficult to say with certainty that nobody is teaching tactics or woodsmanship skills. Yes, some shows are more entertainment than education. And why wouldn't they be? People like to be entertained. The people buying large chunks of land aren't in the hunting industry. They have real money from much more lucrative sources than hunting. Just so I'm clear - we blame corporations for making money, but we don't blame individual landowners? Got it. 100% agree that is one thing is the biggest barrier to entry in hunting. Not the cost of gear or licenses or travel - the cost of acquiring locations to hunt. If you don't have a spot to hunt, all the gear in the world isn't going to do you a lick of good. More than ever before, that's for sure. They may not all be on TV (which nobody watches) but YouTube and other streaming services are chalk full of them. Public land hunting has never been more en vogue than it is today. It's all about supply and demand. There is a limited supply of hunting opportunities on private ranches, a limited supply of guides, and high demand from those who want those trips and have the means to afford it. Landowners want more money (and we're okay with that, remember), so guides have to charge more money. 100% agree with you as well. I enjoy a lot of what these groups put out. The only downside is that they're driving more and more people to public lands, which in turn is making them more difficult to hunt. It's quite the Catch 22 really. According to you, that is. You're free to hunt the way you think it should be, and others can hunt the way they think it should be. One size doesn't have to fit everyone. The glory days of Outdoor Channel personalities raking in tall cash from sponsors are long gone, my man. That ship has sailed and groups like THP and others have put the nail in that coffin. Our public lands are being promoted harder than they ever have in our lifetime. There are more people and more pressure on public lands than we've ever seen. Ask Rinella's brother what he thinks about that.
The issue is private land access and the costs associated with it. I will give you an example scenario. - An elderly farmer owns 300 acres of land in Illinois. It's been in his family for generations. He has three grown children, a couple of grandkids, and some nieces/nephews in the area. These grown kids moved away and don't hunt, but he's got 5 or 6 extended relatives and their buddies that hunt the farm. They've been hunting it for 30 years. - The landowner passes away and leaves the land to his 3 kids, who don't use it or want to deal with it, so they sell it. - The person who purchases the land is a wealthy business owner from several hours away. He buys it for the sole purpose of turning it into a deer hunting farm. TSI, food plots, tree plantings, the whole works. He's building out a whitetail paradise for his own hunting pleasure. - The new landowner doesn't let anyone else hunt his farm. After all, he spent a couple of million on the place and doesn't want anyone else shooting his deer. - Meanwhile, the wealthy business owner also happens to own another farm down the road (150 acres, previously hunted by 3 other guys) and pays for a couple of high-dollar leases to increase his chances for success. In total, he controls 750 acres of land that he pretty much keeps to himself. Maybe he brings a buddy out once or twice a year, or shares one of the leases with another wealthy friend of his. - In the process of acquiring all of this land, one hunter displaced 8-12 guys who previously had access to that ground. They are left with nowhere to go, and can't afford to buy their own farm or afford the crazy high lease prices in their area. - Some of them are getting older and simply don't want to deal with the public land pressure, so they hang it up and stop hunting. - Others carry the torch and move to public, or jump into a lease with a few friends somewhere. - For those who have kids, they are apprehensive to bring them on public and deal with all that brings, so they opt to do other things with them instead. Finding somewhere to bring them where they are going to have fun and see animals isn't as easy as it used to be. IMO, this is the #1 threat to the future of hunting and recruiting new people. I personally know too many people who have locked up tons of ground they keep for themselves, and give zero consideration to the displacement of other hunters. I know people who pay for leases and farms they don't even hunt! Yet, they won't allow others to hunt in their place. /end rant
And more power to them! Seriously! For one thing they are not Their deer, deer move buck will travel far and wide and if those lands are not hunted hard populations will grow and move. Did I see it mentioned those "rich "guys are also hunting tax payer public lands as well? No Thank God for such guys because the guys that hunted that old farmers land for decades DID NOT BOTHER TO PLAN AND SAVE TO MAKE A DEAL WITH SAID FARMER. Where was their concern when they were enjoying someone else's land? Thank the good Lord a hunter bought said land...Have you seen the pics of solar "farms" for miles, housing developments hundreds of acres of timber dropped and access roads built for 180' wind turbines on every ridge possible. I'm seriously TIRED of the blame game. Here is the real problem...convenience people being raised with too much convenience. Forbid something, one would want to enjoy, be less than easy or perfect. So let's find a blame somewhere, anywhere to justify giving up. The hunting public was mentioned THANK GOD! They do Wal-Mart ,you can hunt too videos . They walk around in torn cheap clothes, cars that break down, sleep in pup tents. Walk umpteen miles in nasty weather on public or from lands that they knocked on doors for permission. Listen with humility to lectures in some cases for the privilege. Yet those guys show true glee in everuy animal they take...Those are hunters
I'm not saying should or could do anything about it, but it's just the reality of the landscape out there. Everyone wants to talk about getting more people hunting, but very few are offering to share their properties with others. We have more and more land under the control of fewer and fewer people, with less and less access for the "have nots". And if you think public land is going to support a continual influx of new hunters year after year and sustain any sort of quality hunting, you're living in fantasy land. Back to the original point of this thread - the cost of hunting itself isn't driving people away. Lack of access to hunting spots, in large part due to cost, is driving them away.
Just because they aren't making money from sponsors doesn't mean they aren't driven by the need to make money at all. They still have to live somehow. The romantic idea of a bunch of poor/broke kids driving beat-up cars and torn-up hunting clothes draws more eyeballs to their content, which in turn generates more revenue via ads. These guys are great at what they do, and not all of that is just hunting.
There is. No romanticism in what I said. Do not speak down to me for giving my view on things you do not like.I obviously know they do this to make a profit...Just as...others do. What they do is let your "have nots" understand they aren't actually have nots if they put some effort to it. I grew up, mind much older than you, with a Grandfather and step grandmother that both hunted. Well to all the whiners out there,including me, you have it dang good. Because deer were Not plentiful and Turkey were even less. Small game, water fowl were the thing. They had permission given to hunt ,but were lucky to see anything. Now you want to give an example. Here's mine We have a hunting camp and people were allowed to hunt. Not hundreds 63 acres. As time went on they would just bring their kids,next thing you know they'd be bringing their pets then we where getting calls from the neighbours. Hey there are guys coming out of your woods way past dark and partying with other guys in your camp. We had no idea because the electric bill hadn't come in yet. They'd found the hidden spare key. You know what's YOURS is mine. People invited for one hunt that brought their friends with them. Now That right there ,well that's not UN common ...See RESPECT IS what killed access or rather the lack there of.
First of all, this discussion was never meant to cause an argument or be disrespectful in any way. We're all adults here and we can have different opinions and view points on things and still want to meet up and have a beer afterwards. I do still stand by my opinions. I feel that the most, not all, of the hunting industry is painting a picture of a form of hunting that is not realistic to 99% of the people viewing their shows. Justin, you're absolutely right in that hunting shows are entertainment and nothing more. I tend to forget that. My point in much of this is that the hunting industry, through sensationalizing places such as Iowa, Illinois, etc., has driven up the cost of everything out there in particular. I think we can all agree that just because the Lakoskies or Drury's are growing 200" deer on their farms, doesn't mean the next farm over is the same way. But that next farm over up for lease is next to the Drury farm and the prices are through the roof per acre. I absolutely believe that the hunting industry plays a large part in the cost increases of land in particular. What is available to lease or purchase typically can only be purchased by the wealthy. As Justin mentioned, some of these folks don't even hunt it, but buy it up for the sake of owning the land and "sitting on a gold mine" because they know they can demand top dollar for it if they decide to sell or lease. I seriously doubt this would be the case in the midwest in particular, at least not at this scale, if it wasn't for the industry making the area "famous" for world class whitetail hunting. I have no proof, but it has been rumored for years that the Drury's play an incredible part in why Iowa is so locked up. The EHD epidemic was kept under wraps as best it could because of the non resident money flowing in to hunt the state. If true... if the hunting industry plays such a large part in how a state manages its land and hunting licenses... its no wonder the costs associated with hunting out of state has sky rocketed. Again, I have no proof to this but it does seem to hold some merit. I also need to check myself a bit. The midwest is very different than my home state of PA. Most of the midwest is private ground with very little public. Here in PA, we're blessed to have millions of acres of public land, throughout the state. Perhaps these midwestern states need to start pushing and demanding the states to acquire and protect more hunting land? I'm sure thats a can of worms and not something easily solved. I bring up the Hunting Public type folks because I feel like thats the type of thing that the hunting world needs more of. Yes, they are making money at it, who cares. They have to be in order to hunt as much as they do, all over the country. But... they are hunting in places that any of us could and promoting that fact. Its attainable by any one willing to put the work in. I know I'll ruffle feathers by saying it, but to me, that type of hunting holds more merit than "farming" deer on your own property to hunt. Hunting public land is hard work, and for me, I realize by going down this road, I'm going to have to put in time, fail a lot and have to keep pushing to be successful. To me, the hunting industry and the TV shows have lost that art. Its more about being able to afford land to lock up for. your own purposes and raising deer to shoot. Again, I want to reiterate that I'm not looking down at the industry and how people make a living or how they hunt. I apologize if that came off that way. But I also think the folks in the industry can't deflect all of the blame for the rising costs of hunting. This is why I've all but given up on out of state hunting trips to the outfitter I was going to in the Missouri. I had a ball, but to be honest, it wasn't really hunting. The outfitter does that part. I am just the trigger man in the tree for a week. My two hunting partners and myself are considering finding a lease in Ohio in the coming years, if nothing more than a place to hide from the wives for week... lol.
From someone who passionately despises much of the hunting "industry" and would love to lump a lot of blame on it, Justin hits this out of the park in my opinion . Much of what folks, raises my own hand, hate about the hunting industry is the sellout or pursuit of money alone...however nothing about that is wrong (done legally that is)....however we hate it so we blame them. Fact of the matter is even sports these days are chasing away kids from them due to cost of equipment and travel expenses that some families simply cannot afford within their budget (at least not being good stewards of their money). That "good steward" part makes me think honestly of what I'd say is the second biggest issue behind private land access and that is the concept of being good stewards or people. Many want something for nothing, and won't do the leg work to knock on doors (hundreds) to gain access when they're one of the displaced hunters....many won't approach a farmer and offer to work for them a couple saturdays every month around the farm (bailing, driving, cleaning, mowing, mechanical maintenance...anything) in exchange for permission to hunt. The concept of just being what I'd call a good and respectable person is a dying artform....and I place a lot of that at the feet of the fathers/heads of the households. But that is another rant for another day.
Agree agree agree. Costs are going up. It’s more of a hobby than a necessity for most. You can say the same thing for most outdoor industries. Not to hijack the thread but I’m looking forward to hunting season already. I’m a fisherman first but have you seen prices on these new boats? Approaching $100K for just a boat. 15-20 year old boats and people are still asking $35K for it. It’s ridiculous. This filters out the majority of the population that enjoy the outdoors. Don’t know how people are towing a $60K boat with a $60K truck. But it’s the same thing with the fishing industry. Sorry, rant over!
The cost of fishing equipment is arguably worse than hunting equipment - but the big difference is access to places to fish is substantially better than places to hunt. Because most lakes are public and can support a lot more fishermen than woods can support hunters. People pulling around 150K worth of boat and truck all have really good jobs. The rest of us just suck.
I agree that lack of access to land is the real problem. But I also think there is a lot more contributing to this problem than just rich and greedy trophy hunters. So here’s a provocative question just to be the devils advocate here……. If you are one of the lucky few that have access to private property, should you really be displacing others that are less fortunate by choosing to still hunt public land?
