I hate doing it because I suck at it. A few weeks ago I went to Stuttgart, AR and picked up a new Mathews V3 27. I shoot a Spot Hogg Fast Eddie XL sight. I stopped by our cabin at Wattensaw WMA on the way back to shoot with the sight calibration tape. I knew from the arrow flight that I had a problem, but I had to head home. I finally finished the bathroom remodel I was working on and had time yesterday and today to address the problem. I set up a paper frame and shot which resulted in a serious tail right tear. EVERYTHING I found on the issue said for a tail right tear you need to move the rest left. Yeah, I tried that and it got worse. Besides, to my way of thinking that doesn't make sense at all unless they're talking about moving the rest left while looking at the front of the bow. If the arrow is leaving the bow tail right then moving the rest left moves the point farther left and makes it worse. Wouldn't that be right? If not that's sure what happened. I ended up resetting the QAD Integrate rest back to center and moved it right. Now it looks like it's more on center with the string and riser, I have a slight tail right tear and broadheads/field points hit the same spot at 20 and 30 yards. I haven't tried longer distances with both. I managed to shoot a 2" group at 40 yards at the end of today's session, and I'd hunt with it as it is, but I know something's not right and I'm not enough of a bow technical guru to know what it is. I know that my arrows are properly spined and they're not too stiff. I'm shooting Gold Tip Hunter 300's (9.3 grains per inch) cut to 28". The insert is 50 grains and the point is 100 grains. Total weight is 450 grains shooting at 280 fps. The bow is set at 29" draw @ 65 pounds. There was an issue with the peep rotating before I left the store and the tech corrected it by putting a twist in something, but I didn't pay attention. Surely that didn't cause the problem. I don't know. I'll make another trip back over there eventually and maybe we can work it out.
I had a problem with vane contact when shooting 2" blazer vanes. They have a tall profile. I was having a similar result as you and that was one of the fixes that helped some. I went to a 3" vane with only a 1/2" high profile. The other problem was I had some cam lean. I ended up swapping the Top hats ( shims ) on just one of the cams to help line up center shot. No matter what I can't get my bow on a perfect tune, but got it the best I can for the hunting I do. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I do shoot blazers and having moved the rest right the 4 o’clock blazer would contact the roller guard if I didn’t twist the arrow a bit. I’m pretty sure I don’t have contact now and I have perfect arrow flight. I don’t have a bow press so the next time I make a trip to Mack’s Prairie Wings I’ll have them check it out. That probably won’t be too long from now since I need a couple of other things and I need to have them put a new string on my Heli-m so I have a dependable back up bow.
I didn't even know what top hats were until I stumbled across a tutorial on swapping them out to move cams left or right. The funny thing is that the tutorial said that for a tail right tear like I have the cams need to go right. That should have the same result as moving the rest left. I found a video of a guy who broadhead tuned a new bow and skipped paper tuning. His broadheads were hitting right which would be a tail left tear in paper. He moved his rest left and dialed the broadheads in and lots of folks in the comments lit him up because he did it backwards. I had a tail right tear and moving the rest right helped the problem but according to all the experts out there I should have done the opposite. This makes no sense at all to me.
Your not kidding, I drive myself nuts trying to tune my bow. Lol Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I just saw this after you text me yesterday. I had a similar issue a couple of years ago. Turned out the blazer vanes were causing contact. I peeled off the blazers and refletched with a a Bohning Heat vane in a four fletch configuration. It is a .49" high vane at 2.5" long, so lower profile. The four fletch also improved arrow flight, past 40 yards, my groups got noticeably smaller.
You have fixed BH's and field points hitting same POI out to 30 yards? That's a pretty darn good tune in itself. They say that nock right is showing that the arrow wants to go to the left, so the rest is moved in the direction the arrow wants to go. Same for shimming the cams with top hats, nock right you shim the cams right. I agree that doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense. A great way to eliminate the possibility of fletching contact is to cut them off of an arrow and see what a bare shaft shows. I'm no tuner by any means. I have a shop set the bow to specs and then paper tune it with me doing the shooting. Then at home I shoot a fletched FP and a bare shaft FP at 20 yards and tweak the rest until they're hitting the same POI. When I get this result my fixed BH's have always also shot to the same POI.
I did have the broadheads hitting the same as the field points at 30, but in order to achieve that the arrow rest was adjusted far enough to the right that when I held the bow up in shooting position the arrow was very obviously pointing right. I know that can't be good. I did figure out a part of the problem. Upon closer inspection of the flipper on the QAD rest, the felt that the tech installed was bunched up quite a bit on the right side and it was pushing the arrow left. I evened that out and it improved. I still have a slight tail right tear but I figured out that if I draw and reach around with my index finger on my bow hand and put light tension on the right side of the front of the riser with that finger I can shoot bullet holes. This leads me to believe that most of the problem lies in my grip. I'm not used to the flat sided grip on these new bows. I've always shot the older Mathews rounded wooden grips. If this is the case then I just need to work on my grip. It could be that these shorter ATA bows are not nearly as forgiving on grip and form as the longer ATA bows.
Okay. My problems are solved. I got up early and made the four hour drive to Mack's Prairie Wings in Stuttgart AR. The two techs are top notch and they worked for two hours trying to get that bow to shoot a bullet hole through paper. They checked and adjusted the timing. They moved the rest multiple times. They switched rests. They flipped the top hats to shim the cams. Finally they managed to get it to shoot a bullet hole but the string/rest were so far off center shot that the senior tech said it was unacceptable. I did shoot it some with him watching and he said that I would probably be better off with the V3 31 instead of the V3 27 because it was more forgiving. It was a polite way of saying my form isn't perfect. I've known that all along. They ended up taking the V3 27 back and setting up a V3 31. This time I shot it quite a few times. I got five bullet holes through paper and then we walked out to the warehouse and shot a few arrows at 20 yards. It did well. I asked to shoot it through the chronograph and it ended up being a tad faster than the 27. It shoots a 450 grain arrow at 283 FPS. I'll take that. Strangely enough, that's the second bow I've bought there that wasn't tunable. The last one was a Bowtech Insanity when they came out. Maybe I just have bad luck with bows.
Based on my wife's assessment of where we stand on venison, I'd says it's more like 15-20 deer next season.
Dude…for as many opportunities as you get, you could hunt with a rubber band and a paper clip Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I started working on my own bow because the only shop around has a guy who works there who is the rudest person ever. He was that way to me and I've had to unrelated people tell me the same thing. I've even seen him come up in forums because of how rude he is. So, I got a Bowmaster G2 portable press and it's been amazing. Allows me to restring and do everything I need to.
I know this is an older thread, but thought I'd share the reasons for left/right adjustment and why they don't seem to make sense, but actually do if you think about it correctly. And also, why the "normal" adjustments don't seem to work and the opposite movements help us out on occasion. I have been doing all my own tuning for quite a while now and feel like I have a better grasp on what is happening. (Doesn't mean I'm 100% right though, I'm just an average guy that loves to shoot bows and hunt with them, and lately, do all my own work on them as much as I can) There are other things that can greatly affect tune as well, such as arrow spine or our own shooting form (a big one), but the below is assuming we have those things correct or pretty close anyway. It doesn't seem to make sense that if an arrow is making a point left and nock right tear, then the adjustment is to move the rest left or the cams right (the common recommendation from tuning charts). This paper tear makes it appear as if the arrow is sitting on the rest like this \ in our minds. Moving the rest left or the cams right would seem to make this situation even worse, right? Well, this is because we only think of it as a rest to string alignment issue. But, it is actually pretty easy to get the rest and string aligned before we ever shoot an arrow, either with a bow square, by measuring from the front and back of the riser to the center of the arrow, just setting the rest with the arrow at 13/16" from the riser (common centershot setting for a ton of bows), or a couple other ways. So, most of the time the rest and string ARE aligned. So, why the nock right tear? Because the string is not traveling in a straight line from full draw to brace. Let me say that again. The string is not traveling in a straight line from full draw to brace. This is what we don't imagine happening when trying to make sense of it. Cam lean makes the string do this. So, if the string is moving from right to left from full draw to brace, it is going to kick the arrow and we get a nock right / point left tear (or bare or fixed BH's hit left of field points). Because of this, moving the rest left or the cams right aligns the rest with the power-stroke of the string, and thus cleans up the tear. A high percentage of the time a left/right tear is from cam lean, so the "normal" adjustments work for us. But, what happens if the rest and string ARE actually not square with each other? Then an adjustment in the opposite direction of what is "normal" is what may actually clean it up for us. Internet arguments happen with people that have experienced one or the other happening to them and they swear that what worked for them is what should work for everyone else, and we get very conflicting info. I always first make adjustments per the charts, which show making movements to correct for cam lean. So far these adjustments have worked 100% of the time for me. But keep in mind that there can be other situations effecting the tune that may require an opposite move of the rest or cams to clean up our tune. From my own experiences, I'd recommend always making adjustments per the charts first. But, it is not crazy or weird that once in a while the opposite adjustments are what actually work for us. It just means a different situation besides cam lean was happening to cause our poor tune.
