Pope & Young Club Clarifies Stance on Cellular Trail Cameras

Can you enter a buck in the books when using a cellular trail camera? The Pope & Young Club recently clarified their stance on cellular trail cameras.

The post Pope & Young Club Clarifies Stance on Cellular Trail Cameras appeared first on Bowhunting.com.

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I looked to see if this had been discussed on here prior to the article and couldn't find anything...

At any rate - this doesn't surprise me at all. I love the idea/functionality of cell cameras. I hate the price point and shift to more tech favoring the hunter is bothersome to me.

I've had a couple conversations/debates with guys I hunt with re cell cams this off-season. They wanted to get a few cell cams and I said no thanks. You want to use it during the off-season - awesome I get using it for inventory and keeping human contact off our hunting property. But once October 1 hits - I don't want the advantage or the information. I don't even really pay much attention to the fair chase aspect of things - although an argument for that can surely be made.

I simply want to watch the weather in the days leading up to and the day of my hunt. I want to watch the wind. I want to watch the pressure. I want to watch precipitation. I want to make decisions based on those factors external weather factors. Then consider things like access. Pressure. Timing. I don't want a cell camera having any influence on those things. A cell camera photo of a buck near one of your stands could instantly jump to the very top of the list of the above information - even if you guard against it.

It doesn't change my respect for my buddies - they are welcome to have that perspective on cell cameras. I just don't share that same perspective with them.

 

Does a trail camera give you an advantage? Not so certain it does. A camera tells you where the deer was in the past not in the future.

 

I have cell cameras all over my properties and I can tell you it hasn't helped me kill a single, specific deer yet. Unless I'm in a position to drop what I'm doing and be in a treestand in short order, they aren't all that valuable for "real-time" information. And even if I was able to get there shortly after the photo was taken, I have no idea if I'm going to bump the deer I'm going after by trying to get close to them, or if they're going to be a mile away by the time I get there. IMO, the amount of real-time data that helps someone kill a target animal is fairly limited.

The noted exception being monitoring a trail or food plot that a deer is using on a regular basis. Last year I killed a doe in one of my food plots b/c my cell cam was telling me I had does in that plot virtually every evening before dark. I waited for the right wind, then went in and killed one of them. However, the most recent photo was close to 24 hours earlier. It wasn't a situation of "the deer is there, I'm going to kill it right now."

The true advantage to cell cameras is not having to intrude on your property to go check your photos. Some of my spots are hours from home and I only get to check cameras every few weeks. And during the season it can be a pain to stomp around the whole property just to check cameras and risk bumping deer or leaving scent behind.

 

I'll also say this - I believe cellular trail cameras lead people to make more bad decisions than good ones. Instead of figuring stuff out on your own and using your intuition to outsmart and be a step ahead of the animal, you're always a step behind when you use data from the past. I've seen it time and time again with myself and the people I hunt with. You think the camera is helping, but all it's doing is clouding your judgment.

 

Never heard any hunter (except a paid spokesman) say I would have never shot that buck without using a trail camera.

 

Challenge accepted

 

I agree with their stance on 'phone cams', same as I agree with their 'NO Crossbows' stance in archery seasons ... cams are fun to use, even somewhat of a hobby for some, I like to see whats out there, but the 'phone cams' take them to another level .. good move on their behalf ...

 

I agree with their stance as well. But just to be clear, they say you're not eligible for the record book if you used real-time information to go harvest your animal. Meaning, you get a picture of a deer near one of your stands, then immediately run out there and kill it.

Getting general pictures of an animal you're hunting days, weeks, or months before you kill it does not exempt you from entering it into the record books.

 

They can be used by buck bed hunters who set them up within yards of buck bed, and that takes the guesswork if a buck is using a particular bed. I've seen some discussions of it over on the beast hunter forum.

 

So hold on a second - we could come up with 100 different scenarios where I believe real-time data could impact the success of a hunt but I don't want to really go down that road.

I just can't be convinced otherwise that real-time photos as apposed to photos that you have to go out and change out the card doesn't give the hunter more of an advantage?? And just because it hasn't worked in your favor yet Justin that doesn't mean it's not an advantage... It just means it hasn't worked yet. I would agree that the information can inhibit a hunters ability as much it can help it - 100% which is exactly why I said I wasn't interested in them in the first place.

I 100% think a real-time photo to your cell phone telling you:

1. what section of the property a buck is on

2. what direction he is heading a

3. what day/month is it

4. what time of day it is

5. what is the weather doing on that property

You can tell all of that from a photo that can give you some pretty darn good intel on where that buck might be... If I look at a map of my property before a hunt and I know where a buck was within in the last 4 hours given all of the factors above I should be able to narrow down my property pretty well on where I should hunt that next morning or next evening which ever it may be.

 

If I had a cell cam - the first thing I would do after getting a picture of a shooter buck is check the DeerCast App to see if I should hunt or not. That is FOR SURE!

 

I know a guy who had a 203" frequenting his property. He is a farmer and got a ping on his camera that the buck was on his property and heading a certain direction. He dropped everything and ran over to the side of the property it was heading. Ended up shooting it shortly after.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app

 

There are a TON of "what ifs" here. And I'm not speaking just for myself and my experiences. I know dozens of hunters that have been using cell cameras, many of us for several years now. I know of ONE situation where someone got a picture of a deer that morning, then went in and killed him that afternoon. Did the camera inspire him to make sure he was in a tree that afternoon? Absolutely it did. But he's on 20 acres of property with a single treestand. It's not like the camera told him the location of the deer or made it walk close to his stand.

I can give you dozens of examples of people trying the same thing and the deer never showing up. The amount of times this happens in the real world is much lower than you think.

First, you're assuming that you're getting pics from the cell camera in real-time. Many of them upload once or twice a day, not the minute the photo is taken. So IF you're getting real-time images, you still need to be in a position to drop whatever it is you're doing and immediately head into the woods. The stars really have to align to make this happen.

Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? No. Chances are that deer isn't where you think he is by the time you get there. And how often do you get pics of the same deer in the same spot more than once in a day? In my experience, it's pretty rare.

Deer most certainly don't walk in a straight line, and the idea that because he's facing a certain direction at the time a photo is snapped has anything to do with where he will be when you get this is very far-fetched. This is one of the most common mistakes with trying to use any trail camera to "pattern" a deer. What you think you see is rarely what's really going on.

Not really sure what this has to do with anything? You get that information from any trail camera - cellular or not.

You can get that from any weather application now.

I understand that that sounds great on paper. But I can assure you, it's rarely this way in the real world. I'm speaking from years of experience along with dozens of personal connections I know who also use cellular cameras. We've wasted a lot of time chasing behind deer rather than getting in front of them.

CAN it present a real-time benefit? YES. Does it always work that way? Absolutely not. Can you enter your animal into P&Y or B&C if you use real-time data to kill it? NO. And I'm perfectly okay with that.

 

I will bet money for everyone 1 of these stories there's 100 more where the deer never showed up.

 

So you discredited or poked holes in EVERY single thing I had to say and found validity in nothing... Okay got it. I will just read this thread from here on out. I’ve nothing more to add.

 

This is what happens in a conversation/debate. You offer your opinion and I offer mine. There's nothing personal about it. I'm simply offering a perspective from someone who has used these products for several years.

Before I began using cellular trail cameras I thought many of the same things you did. After some experience in the field, I found that most of what I thought was going to happen, didn't.

I don't fault anyone for not wanting to use them. Sometimes I wish I never got started with them. They're addictive little suckers.

 

Meh.

I acknowledged that I think you’re correct the biggest and best usage is to keep human contect off your properties - said that a few times.

The difference is I can see the use for them and I’m able to recognize as much. You didn’t seem too interested the first time in hearing me out.

But I also see a very distinct advantage in using them and I gave my reasons why and you say just because a deer is facing a certain direction on camera doesn’t mean you know where he’s going....

I’d say if he’s faced a certain way depending on how well you know your property, time of year, time of day, conditions you got a decent idea wher he might be going and why. Of course this isn’t the case every time...

But we’re good here I see what you’re saying. Use what the world has give you! Simply put - I don’t think you or anyone else would be using them if they didn’t see multiple advantages in doing so...

Maybe just maybe tipping hunting odds in your favor isn’t real life or not one of your reasons - but I guarantee it is for some hunters!

 

Give me this information on any of the 2 main older bucks on my property, and I'd place a very serious bet I have a serious chance at having a shot at that buck within the next 4-8 hours. ESPECIALLY if I get pictures of that buck headed in a direction at the timing of retreating to his bed of choice that morning....LORD have mercy there is no better intel. Still zero guaranteed, but I get this aspect at least of what you were getting at.

 

Either I'm a terrible hunter, or this isn't nearly as true as we believe it to be. I like to think the latter. But who knows, really.

As I said earlier - I believe this is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to all trail cameras. We believe that because a deer is facing a certain way in a picture, he's traveling that direction. The truth is, he can veer off to one side or another, or make a button hook at any point in time. Those cameras capture one split second in time of an animal wandering around the woods.

The next time you're out hunting really pay attention to a deer as it makes it's a way through the woods and see how many times its body changes the direction it's pointed in. I have personally watched deer come from one direction, make a turn, walk in front of a trail camera facing the complete opposite direction, and then turn again and continue to where they were going. If I only had the picture to go off, I would think that deer was traveling somewhere else entirely.

My point is that we often think trail cameras are giving us a lot more information than they are. That's not always the case, but it happens more of the time than we give it credit for. This is true for all cameras - cellular or otherwise.

God's honest truth - the only reason I use them is the sheer convenience of not having to travel to check them. During the season I may not get to some of my spots for weeks on end, and when I do I often don't have enough time to go check all of my cameras. Being able to check them remotely is a life-saver. Is that by itself an advantage towards being able to kill an animal? I don't see that it is. It simply tells me (sometimes erroneously) if I should be spending time there or not.

They rarely influence my decision on which stand to hunt as I've learned that this isn't the most effective means of hunting for me. Believe me, I tried! And I know plenty of others who have tried and failed as well.

Trail cameras capture such a small area for a small period of time, they aren't much more useful to me than providing intel on what animals may be in the area. Even then, a couple of yards in the wrong direction and your camera will tell you there's no activity at all.

I have two cell cameras out right now that are less than 20 yards from each other. If I put a stand in between them, I could shoot either one. One on a bean field, one in a clover food plot. I rarely, if ever, get the same animal on both cameras on the same day. In fact, the clover camera has almost no bigger bucks on it at all. It's solid does and fawns, and a couple 1-year-olds. The beans cam has a mature buck on it every day or two. If I only had the clover camera out, I would probably never hunt there, even though I have multiple pictures of shooter bucks passing by within bow range right on the other side of it.

Again, my point is that trail camera data is very misleading. We sure like to think it's helping us, though!

Agree 100%.