Hello all. Grateful for any help you can offer. I'm shooting a 2016 PSE Carbon Air (the one with the bridge that the cable pulleys are attached to) with 65 pound draw. I recently changed the strings and have the bow isn't shooting a bullet-hole tear through paper at 3 yards any more. The cams are timed and their is no cam lean (i.e., the string pulls off the upper and lower pulley straight back). It appears to shoot the field points (210 grain) wonderfully. I'm shooting Valkyrie Archery broadheads and arrows (4 mm carbon shafts, 300 spine, 26.5 inch shaft). The 3-blade broadheads (Short Jag, 210 grain) land about 1.5 inches left of the field point impact at 20 yards. I can't adjust the rest (QAD drop away) because it is maxed out to the left. Moving it right (for those that tune broadheads differently) exacerbates the error. I adjusted the spacers on the upper pulley today, which allowed me to move the string slightly right (by putting the wider spaces on the left side of the pulley). This adjusted the point of impact of both arrows to the left, but did not bring them together (the broadhead is still 1.5 inches to the left). I was able to tune the broadheads with the previous string (factory), though the rest was nearly maxed out to the left (but they did group with the field points). I'm happy to supply pictures or more information for anyone that has ideas on how to tune these broadheads. Thank you.
Put the rest back to center shot and take about 5 pounds off the draw weight, your too weak most likely
trail153, thanks for your comment. I appreciate you taking the time. I would expect a shaft that is too weak to effect both the field points and the broadheads (at least this has been the case in my experience). However, I will consider your thoughts. Best wishes.
It's beyond me. I wish I could help, but if it were me, I'd go to my shop to see what's up. Curious tho, have you tried a different broadhead to see if you're still hitting left? Having your rest maxed out one way doesnt seem right to me and no offense to trial, but I dont think draw weight would cause the problem you're describing. Just my .02. By the way...welcome to the forum and good luck troubleshooting. Sent from my SM-G960U using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
I have tuned a few PSE carbon airs both with HD cams and with evolve cams. Broadhead left is the same as a bare shaft left......both indicate a right tear. A right tear from a right handed bow is weak spine reaction. You can't take a load off that cable guard because of its design. Dropping bow draw weight will clear up a weak spine reaction.
Trial153, thanks again for the response. What I'm trying to understand is why the field points give a bullet hole tear, but the broadheads don't. I understand that broadheads exacerbate issues, and perhaps that is all that is happening here. I'd rather not drop the draw weight, so it looks like I should try out some stiffer shafts and see if it resolves the problem. Thank you again for taking the time to offer your advice. Best wishes.
My .02 is worth less than .02 apparently. I'll go back to smoking meat and let someone who knows their poopy on PSEs talk. Sent from my SM-G960U using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Eric, Good evening. I just noticing your post. Thanks for weighing in. I'll give your thought a try tomorrow when the sun comes back up. I have a 180 grain weight I can put on. Best wishes to you.
OP- am I missing something? What poundage are you pulling? I agree that being underspined is a likely cause but w/o knowing your draw weight it's just a guess based on experience. 210gr on the front of a 300 shaft seems a bit on the lighter spine side; but you are also only shooting 26.5"...which brings me back to your unknown draw weight. You should never be forced to max out your rest in either direction to achieve bullet holes. Your rest should be more or less centered.
I'm far from a great tuner, let me say that first. I won't be any help with any tuning that requires a press and doing cam or string twist adjustments. Not to knock your shooting form at all, but tuning issues with the rest almost maxed out in one direction can be the result of something with your shooting form. Got any buddies familiar with archery that could shoot a couple just to see what happens? I would also make sure there definitely isn't any vane contact occurring, athletes foot spray is a great tool to check for vane contact. Spray your fletching, let it dry so the fletchings are all white, and then shoot a few and inspect. You can steal your girl's lipstick to test with too. Trial153 is exactly right, decreasing poundage will improve a weak spine condition. Easy test, even if you don't want to leave it lower. You could also try lighter tips. You probably have some lighter field points but not lighter broadheads (BH) of the same style. A bareshaft flies very similar to a BH in most cases. Cut the fletching off a couple arrows and see what you get using just field points on both the fletched and bareshaft arrows. If you use a fairly new compressed foam BH type target you can compare the angle that fletched and bareshaft hit at too (A bag target that is stuffed is not a good target to use, it won't accurately keep the angle the arrow hit it at). You could also then try putting on lighter field points and see if the results change and indicate a possible spine issue. I recently got new strings and cables and had a Pro shop paper tune it. They said they kept getting a nock left at 3 yards through paper with the 340 spine arrow I provided them, and they couldn't adjust it out. They said a nock left can also indicate a weak spine, so they tried one of their 300 spine arrows they had and bingo...a bullet hole. I shot fletched and bareshaft at home at 20 yards (started at 5 yards to make sure I'd hit the target at 20). My 340 arrows have a 20 grain weight added to the back of the insert and a 125 grain field point. Bareshaft was hitting right of my fletched and showed a nock left condition, just like the shop had been seeing. Since I knew I was on the edge of a weak spine, I took the 125 field heads off and put in 100's. This immediately improved my nock left on the bareshaft, it hit the target straight like the fletched were. 25 grains of tip weight was all it took. I then tweaked my rest to bring the bareshaft over so it was hitting with the fletched. Even though the paper tune showed a bullet hole at 3 yards, the rest still wasn't quite perfect. I haven't shot a BH yet, but am super confident that they will hit with my field points since a bareshaft is doing so.
Tr Trial, good morning. It seems to me that stiffer arrows, lower grain weight points, and lowering the poundage of the draw accomplish all the same thing (though not necessarily at the same level of efficacy). For what it is worth, I have a friend who shoots the same arrows. His weigh 30 grains less (180 rather than the 210 I was shooting). I replaced my broadhead with his--same result (which is, field point flies very well, broadhead is 1.5 inches or a bit more to the left at 20 yards). I am going to try stiffer arrows next (ordering a couple today). Just thought I would fill you (and others) in on my progress. Thank you (and everyone else) for your input.
the Valkyrie system uses VAP Elite shafts; correct? @ 65# with that draw length, using your PSE's IBO rating and Victory's arrow chart for that shaft; https://www.victoryarchery.com/arrow-guide/ you should be shooting a 350 with a 210gr head (including insert.) I threw in a 31" shaft for comparison and they are at 300. I then put a total front end weight of 310gr in the calculator with your 26.5" draw, and you should be more than fine with a 300 shaft. If anything, with your current set up you are overspined with a 300 although I am not a big believer in that term. With all that said, it hurts you not at all to drop down to 60# just to see what happens. It costs you nothing vs. buying and tinkering with a ton of different components. You drop it down to 60# with a center shot rest and your arrows fly straight; well then shoot 60#.
Just an update for everyone that has been assisting. I've tried using lower weight points--it changed nothing. I also tried using my friend's 350 spine shafts (he shoots the same Valkyrie system arrows using the VAP shafts, I have been shooting 300, he shoots a slightly weaker spine than I do). Nothing changed. I still have a slight right tear and (as would be expected) broadheads that hit 1.5 inches or a bit more to the left at 20 yards. I'm starting to feel this isn't an issue of spine, but something to do with the string centering itself. I replaced the string recently (Winners Choice) and while everything checks out (cam timing, cam lean), this happened then. I still wonder if I need to move the upper cam further to the right (as you face the belly of the bow) using the spacers that are present on the axle.
With the caveat of not having picked up or looked at a PSE in 25 years; I would say that is a good place to start. There's something more off than just arrow spine (which is not off per arrow manufacturer specs.) Your rest should be more or less centered with the string to punch clean holes unless you got some cam alignment issues or just habitually and horribly torque the bow and that's your work around. I have to do that in golf...address the ball about 20* of center
*****Another update: I moved the spacers on the top cam. There are now 2 spacers on the left and 2 spacers on the right side of the cam (as you face the cams when shooting). The spacers on the left are a little wider than the 2 on the right. As I mentioned, this didn't do anything but move the point of impact (the arrow still wouldn't tune). However, I noticed that this developed a cam lean on the bottom cam. The spacers are the same on the bottom cam (i.e., there is no moving them with the included hardware). However, the bus cable and control cable both connect to the ride side of the cam, which means tightening or loosening them can adjust the lean of the bottom cam. I added a half twist to both cables and it straightened out the lower cam. Now, I was able to get a bullet-hole tear in the paper tuning process, and the broadheads are within 0.75 inches or so within the impact point of the field points. In summary, the broadhead tuning is still off, but improved. I still don't understand why the rest is maxed out to the left. The question is: Can I add one of the spacers on the right to the left side to move the upper cam over more? That would put three spacers on one side and one on the other. The cam would be pretty far off center (speaking in terms of mm, but visible to the eye). It seems moving the string and then correcting any subsequent lower cam lean has brought things in the right direction. I can only surmise there has been some serious string stretching since it was installed that has allowed serious play in various cables/strings. I could be wrong. Thank you everyone for your help. I've never encountered this before and hope never to again.
Not for nothing but if you changed only 1 thing (string ) then instead of new arrows, or correcting lean due to spacers. Maybe you should get a new set of strings.
Fix, I just purchased the new strings ($140) from Winners Choice. Throwing them out and starting out isn't something I'm excited to do. I believe it may have to do with tension or needed twists. But, even with the factory strings, the rest was nearly maxed out. So I think it may have several causes that are contributing to the problem. Best wishes.
