very interesting- couple of comments: Louder noise does not travel faster than soft noise- so the minuscule decibel differences in a "quiet" compound bow vs. a bow that sounds much louder to us (when our ears are inches from the moving parts vs. a deer that is 20+ yards away) probably do not affect how much a deer is going to drop at the sound of the shot. Regardless of volume; it either recognizes the sound as potential danger and reacts or does not. Same goes for visual stimuli. Minimum reaction time of a deer is the same regardless of the stimuli. A deer still has to process the stimuli and then react; at which time gravity is also a constant. So if a deer is looking at you and sees a lighted nock flying at it; it can still only react so fast. Sure light travels faster than sound but at normal archery distances the time difference between sound and light is fractions of a second. (I've told this story before) I waited out a fog one morning. Just as it was starting to lift, I walked in and ran into a buck that spooked and then ran off over the hill. Thinking I might get lucky I put a little stalk on and caught the buck standing in the open CRP at what I thought was about 40 yards. Head up, looking in my general direction but not right at me. I let fly with the 40 right on his heart, and he turned his head toward me, saw the nock, and ducked. I had understimated the distance by 8 yards (I later ranged) and before the arrow was halfway home I knew I was going to miss a foot or more low even though I had aimed at the lower part of the heart. Well, damned if he didn't duck a foot an a half or so low right to the ground and I hit him right in the top of the heart. One of my shorter recoveries.
About the noise volume-i wonder if less decibals are percieved as less threatening to a deer though. That could affect how much it drops in response to the sound. Kind of like when a deer catches the wind of someone with careful but not perfect scent control vs someone who doesn't watch their scent at all. Sent from my SM-G930P using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
How much the deer drops is a factor of gravity, not so much how scared they are. Additionally, I've always thought that the deer is reacting to the sound of the arrow speeding toward it more than the sound of the bow going off. If you watch footage of deer being shot when there are other deer around, you generally do not get the same reaction from the deer that aren't being shot at. They become alert, but they don't duck/dodge the way the target animal does. Clearly they're keying in on something that indicates a threat is headed their way. IMO I think it's the arrow and not the bow. So at 16:09 Grant says that we don't have a modern compound or crossbow that is fast enough to beat a whitetail's reaction at 40 yards. Scientifically proven.
I disagree with your point of how far deer are dropping. When you look at the footage some deer are dropping till they almost hit the ground while some are only dropping a few inches. Sent from my SM-G930P using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
That's more a factor of how quickly they react to the sound. The quicker they react, the further they drop before the arrow gets there.
Exactly. Based on my experience, a properly tuned Mathews Halon 32 with cat whiskers is a lot quieter than a hickory nut falling through the trees hitting every other branch on the way down. I don’t care how you fletch arrows, 4 fletch, 6 fletch, super low profile vanes, arrows still make noise flying through the air, even more with a fixed blade. Where I hunt, the woods are super noisy with traffic and birds and corn rattling in the wind and acorns falling and the neighbors riding there rzr’s up and down the road like they’re border patrol. I don’t feel the initial sound of the string is the issue, but the arrow whizzing towards their heart
But an arrow zipping through them wouldn't stop them from dropping, at least not by a major factor. Sent from my SM-G930P using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
I have observed over the past few years that bucks tend to drop much less frequently than does. I think much of this is because does are by nature much more wired than bucks are. Thinking back, of the last 6 bucks I have killed with a bow, all have been between 30-47 yards and not a single one has dropped at the shot. Most of the does I have shot however, have dropped. Does react similar to coyotes I think. Earlier this week I shot at a coyote at 42 yards. I shot over him, or so I thought. After reviewing video footage my arrow hit the exact spot I aimed at, but that coyote dropped over a foot before the arrow got there. But conversely to that, the buck I shot last year on 10/1 was 47 yards and he literally didn't move a muscle when i shot.
I get what you're saying- while gravity is constant and a deer can only drop so fast; not every deer that drops is going to intend to do a full drop every time. People are like that, too. Take a swing at someone and they might not move a muscle. Or move just enough to dodge the punch. Or do a full complete fall back. Some people are just more alert than others and I'm sure deer are like that also.
That is exatcly the analogy i was about to use. Sent from my SM-G930P using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
Of course. Trouble is you can't predict their reaction. So at 40 yards and beyond it's a crap shoot - regardless of the speed of your bow or your proficiency with it. Which is what I've been saying all along.
There is one variable that is impossible to factor in this experiment- the deer. Arrow speeds, mass, gravity, all are more or less constant or at least constant when controlled (ie sure a 250fps arrow will arrive later than a 310fps arrow; but all 310fps arrows will arrive at the same time- and the sound of both will travel at the same time.) I will say I agree with Justin in at least one regard- the deer that actually has the projectile flying at it will likely hear the sound of the arrow in flight faster than a deer standing on the side. I don't know exactly why this is. But here's another real world example- when I was a kid me and my buddies used to have BB gun wars (dumb as hell, I know.) There is nothing like the sound of a BB screaming at your melon- you hear it coming the whole way. Only an incoming head shot (or very near head shot miss) had that sound- you could get shot anywhere below the neck and you would not hear the BB coming at you. Sounded like a massive incoming mosquito.The worst part was you had time to recognize the sound for what it was and while you could not turn away fast enough I do distinctly remember being able to grimace and squeeze my eyes shut tight before the BB would hit. I once took a BB right in the ear. Went through the front skin and cartilage, then lodged between the cartilage and the skin on the back of my ear. Carried that sucker around for 2-3 years until it started fouling (copper BB+oxygenated blood) and the back of my ear turned blue. Finally had the guts to tell my parents and my dad cut it out with a Buck knife. God we were stupid as kids. LOL.
I thought me and my cousins were the only dip $hit$ that had bee bee gun wars, so my uncle caught us having a war one day, him a Vietnam Vet wore our back ends out bad. He then took us to the. barn and made us put on football helmets welding masks and gloves and scarves around our necks, now go play he said! No head shots shoot for the legs, off we went. Ahh growing up in the 70s
I was hoping the study talked about the yardages at which deer jump the string. I feel that 17 yards or less there is no jumping the string. 17 to 35-40 yes, and 40+ it’s a guess. One thing I will share is that I believe they see the arrow just as much as they hear it. I used to shoot white feathers until I took a long shot at a doe, literally watched her see the arrow and follow it. After watching some hunting videos I believe you can see it happen. Red feathers and no issues since. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well consider that most arrows sent towards a deer are coming from an elevated plat form rather than a straight line.
If you shoot white fletchings you’d be surprised. Setup a camera once, I was shocked at how visible my arrow was. Red fletch from now on, who knows maybe chuck Adams was on to something Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wonder how the results correlate to an antelope? Seems acceptable to try a 45 yarder and set up for a 62 yarder on a speed goat...
