I think some of you are giving outfitters a little to much credit......lots of them are running a ton of guys though the land they lease. Except for a select few it wouldn't surprise me that they put more pressure on their properties during the week then most other private leased or own properties. Most talk a good game...but money talks and bull **** walks....they make money buy running hunters though their leases....
Don't they already have a limited number of tags per county. Like this year for instance I'm pretty sure Adams ran out of tags but you could still get tags if u hunted in Pike. This was otc firearms tags I thought. Not 100% sure but I do know they always run out of either sex tags pretty quickly after otc is available.
It would be a better topic for another Illinois resident than myself. Thankfully outfitters are not heavily setup in my county and leasing really isn't much of an issue around our farm, but surrounding pressure is though. Our public lands get pounded by non residents but I can't say much for private properties with full certainty. I was driving around Pike County much of Saturday and saw plenty of deer however.
This thread inspired me to dig out some old photos of my dad's, so when I visited them tonight I spent forever just spilling over old deer and trapping pics. Made me realize just how great the 90's were for our farm. I didn't have time to scan any of them onto the computer, but will try to post them up if I get a chance. A lot of dandy bucks in the album, and by no means were they trophy hunting, planting food plots, or even passing any deer. If it was brown, they shot it. My dad also took great pride in the quality of bucks on the public lands he was in charge of, some of those bucks were just unreal. With some of the old timers getting out of hunting on our farm I've always wanted to get together all our mounts from back then and get a picture of them on the side of our old barn.
I realize this article isn't about IL, but it's a very interesting read. It gives some insight into what we're up against in the whole scheme of things. http://http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2013/10/dirty-politics-deer-management
I've heard allot of complaints from Illinois hunters that EHD has been a big issue. Question for whoever can answer this, does EHD occur when populations get too high? Actually I enjoyed Don's article. The man has put tons of effort into trying to fix a problem. I'd get pissed too if someone jumped down my throat. When someone trys and trys to fix a problem and nothing gets done things get said. Frustration starts coming out but guess what it worked for Don. People are now talking about it. I'd say it worked out in his favor perfectly. Englum (Patrick) is a good friend of mine here on the forums. Him and I text here and there talking hunting and such. The other day he told me he hasn't even shot a single deer yet. He could've shot a doe but decided against it with the population being bad. He's doing his part and I'm sure some others are too. Yes hunters are sometimes their own worst enemy but allot of times so is the men and women in office making these rules. I've fought with the Mn DNR with our bear hunting issue for the last 20 years. Like Don I've been involved in some meetings but not near as much as him. I too have pointed fingers at certain individuals and called them out. Why? Cause it had to be done. Has it worked? Not sure but it was the damn truth. Myself and a local Conservation Officer in northern Minnesota have really pounded the issue with the Minnesota DNR. Things are now starting to change for the better and I believe myself and this certain CO are a big reason for it. Things might change too for Illinois because Don has finally had enough and has spoken LOUDLY. Well done I say. I wish all of you Illinois hunters the best in this issue. Hopefully things get turned around.
Thank you Steve, finally someone else who realizes what don was trying to accomplish with the article. He got people talking about the herd and the DNR. He accomplished that. It needed to be done. And I've met Don several times, not sure he would remember me, but each time he was a super nice guy.
I guess I will put in my .02 cents, I actually ran across this thread cause my buddy on here shared something on facebook about this article and I found it very interesting, so I joined this forum site. I'm no biologist by any means, but have been an avid bowhunter for over 20 years. I am very interested in deer and habitat management and do think Illinois needs to change things around. A lot of people on here do have a lot of valid points on what I have read of this thread. My own personal opinion is 1) The state needs to reduce the number of firearms permits issued and consolidate the firearms seasons which in some counties can have up to 4-5 different seasons or more(2 reg firearm,muzzleloader only,late season,youth season,nuissance permits). I will like to see them just have the 2 firearms seasons and regulate nuisance permits more than what they are. I have heard of two many people down in the south part of the state shooting large amounts of deer off of one area with the nuisance tags, young bucks and does.AAnybody knows as well as I do that's going to take a toll on the local deer herd. Look at the Illinois deer harvest information since I think 1957-2012. Starting in 1991 according to the chart is when IL started reporting muzzleloader and late season harvest, since 91 look at the amount of deer that's been harvested until the present time, which if I remember 2005 was the peak year and has been declining since. 2.) Back in the mid 90's for a couple of years Illinois had unlimited amount of bucks you could harvest as long as you bought a tag. I remember that couple of years cause I worked at a local archery shop which was also a archery check station, I remember some of the same people checking in multiple bucks those years and I know of one guy by name that killed 7 bucks that year, with one being a high scoring 26 pt non-typical. Illinois did wise up a little after those couple of years and made it a 2 buck limit, but I think that put a damper on the deer quality. 3.)Bring back the check stations!! This call in check system is a joke, it's a lot easier way to check it in, but is a lot easier way for people to abuse the system and not call in there deer harvest for accurate harvest information. (Just my opinion) 4.) Go to a one buck and a two doe limit for a 5 year period then reevaluate the situation. 5.)Make a place on the IDNR website for deer hunter surveys to get more feedback on what the hunters in the field are seeing and use that extra data to help the biologist.(Ex. how many does/bucks,yearlings they seeing on each hunt, weather conditions, type of terrain they hunting, what county,,,etc) 6.) Hunters/landowners on private lands should also establish more deer management and habitat improvements if possible. In recent years more and more people like myself have started and trying to establish more management and habitat improvements. If more and more hunters/landowners start doing this every year it will eventually help the situation. 7.) the more and more we do as hunters/conservationist on our own private land wether we are a landowner, have a lease or just have permission to hunt. We need to help our habitat and be more selective on what we shoot will make a difference. 8.) If Marc Miller is more of a waterfowl biologist than all around biologist we are definitely in some trouble cause the waterfowl hunting and habitat has gone to crap in the past 12 years or so. As a long time waterfowl hunter too, waterfowl hunting has gone to sh.t in a handbag. Well that's my 2 cents, I'm sure I have missed some other things I wanted to say,but am at work and tried to type this here and there when I had a chance. I am open to all comments and opinions.
I had no problem with the article from Don that was put on here or his efforts he's made to improve hunting in Illinois. It was more the arrogance he should in this thread for what he has and hasn't done and who he is. If nothing else saying he only got into trouble or didn't which ever because the DNR knew who he was and some of the things he's trying to get changed. It happens every fall to less "famous" people but you don't hear about because of the same reason. Take responsibility for your actions and move on. Schultzy has far as your EHD question, yes I believe if a area becomes over populated any disease will likely show up but th population will bounce back. Nature as always shown this and most times without the help of people. Which is also what I believe will happen if we start trying to change things drastically to increase numbers again. One bad year is not enough reason to completly revamp anything. Yea since 2005 we've been having somewhat record numbers for harvest but that doesn't mean those number are what the habitats we have in Illinois can substane (I'm not sure if thats the word I'm looking for, after reading it a couple times it doesn't sound right ha).
Schultzy, EHD doesn't need a high population of deer to wipe out a good percentage of them. A wet spring followed by a dry late summer seems to be the recipe for EHD to really do a number on the deer. The deer concentrate on drying up stagnant water holes those years and the abundance of mud and water earlier in the year means there's a high population of the midges that spread the disease. So, even if there are only a few deer in the area, they are going to travel to these remaining water sources.
What I would like to know about EHD, that no biologist I've asked can answer, is how it over winters. Deer that are infected but survive are not supposed to be carriers. I've been told that the adult midges don't overwinter. The larvae supposedly can't be carriers until they bite an infected deer. But all of those can't be true. ???? Edit: I just did some googing and read that they now have determined that EHD overwinters in cattle. So.... blame the cows.
I also enjoyed the article and feel it got the message out that it was intended too. People are really talking about this situation now. There have been some very good, valid points made in this thread. I can't elaborate on the situation because I am not informed enough about it. I really enjoyed the article Don, I hope things get better in Illinois and becomes the whitetail dreamland it once was. I will also say that some valid points were made about some other members on here who should really tone done. I have seen it in multiple threads now and the bashing of other members has got very old. This is the best forum in my opinion and it only take's one bad apple to ruin that. They may not mean anything by it but sometimes you come off as a complete a**. I just felt I should mention this. Rant over
i disagree. People are not talking about this topic right now because of Higgins article. They're talking about it because they're pissed they weren't seeing enough deer this past season. trust me, I live in the extreme north east section of the state where seeing more than three deer in a sit is spectacular and has been for the better part of a decade. In fact, the hunters up here are so ticked at the IDNR that they paid for a billboard that basically stated "f$$$ you" to the IDNR. That's right, a giant billboard. No, make no mistake, the question about the mismanagement practices of the IDNR are not new to us northerners. It's just that only now, our southern brethren are getting mad (and they see three times the amount of deer we see in a single sit). The concern is that of the tactic of bashing the states deer biologists and what it won't accomplish. I mean, do you go out and totally rip someone a new one about their job and expect them to say "thank you, I will try to do better". not likely. And with this article Higgins (and the rest of the states deer hunters) will not receive what they're looking for - better hunting. so in a sense, this article does nothing to help us. It only furthers the gap Higgins had (if ever) with the powers to be. higgins said himself he's been working with the IDNR for twenty years. That's awesome in my opinion. But, if in twenty years of doing anything in life, things haven't changed to your liking then calling names is really not going to get you anywhere. It's probably going to close doors for you or anyone else. You're just going to become "that guy".. You know.. The one no one listens to. Thats my argument. was the Higgins article okay in turning the eye of the states deer hunters on the subject (maybe). But if you didn't know there was a problem you've been living under a rock or hunting the prime grounds of the south and central part of the state. My point was... Where does Higgins (a well respected writer and voice of many hunters) go from here? because now.. He's hurt any relationship he once had with the IDNR. Higgins has the power to persuade the states deer hunters through his pen, but it won't matter if the biologists we're trying to change turn a deaf ear to that pen. A mans ego is a fragile thing. You have to be clever if you're going to go after it. This article was not clever.
Has anyone here had more face time with the Dnr then Don? Looks like billboards don't work either. 2.9% of the Il. population buy a tag(probably less with multiple tags) and probably half of those vote. 18% of Wisconsin buys a tag and they have political clout. It comes down to votes/politics and influence. beyond that it takes strong private hunter groups to just say no to dumping doe. Wisconsin is heading this way as well and this year a toolbox of pain will be introduced with one goal in mind, stacking deer. Luckily the southern 2/3rds of the state is private and they will not allow a scorched earth policy to happen. Grassroots efforts to stop shooting doe and raising the dpsm can work but it takes a village.
