(updates below in this original post) ***I would like to stress the concept that all of our frustration and feelings have been discussed with the owner, we have an awesome relationship with him and as we've told him numerous times about the issue of the crops "We know deer, you know crops and we take your word for it that the damage is there and will in the end do exactly what you desire." This thread was started in frustration and fear primarily due to how the program was originally explained by him that it sounded like he would be letting any of the 10 listed hunters come out whenever and slaughter does...meaning everything we'd spent time, money and energy on for him and the rights to have sole bowhunting rights would be wasted. That is the frustration that underlined this thread and the blessing is it didn't become what we thought and while it sucks we have to pressure the property some well before the hunting season it could have been a lot worse. So any of you spouting off about how disrespectful or ungrateful we are, stop, you are wrong. Blessings. Well our prime property is one which we (father and I) bust our butts for. The farmer doesn't charge us but we have purchased tons of pine trees, recently apple trees, cut entire field edges (100s of trees) for his equipment trails, kept cameras up and shared photos, help load pigs up for sale, made trail camera books of each year for him and continued to do anything we can to continue having the blessing of hunting his place.....well..... ....he claims he is having far too much crop damage to his beans and hay so he is going to be putting in names to the State to request for special permits to shoot extra deer this year. It would include a list of 10 names...while he is putting our names on it that means basically bye bye bowhunting sole hunting rights more than likely...and property annihilation come gun season..... ....sick to my stomach right now. To be honest his property butts up to a 200 acre swamp/state owned parcel of property so yeah deer population holding ground is at a premium and he does get some of his fields hit hard at times, but not enough to warrant this! rant over/ *Update as of 7/28/14 I still don't see the 50% soybean loss the farmer is stating but he knows crops I know deer so this is where we are: -The letter with planned spots to hunt without hurting deer movements for October as much as possible was well received. He also understands now that killing bucks during this (1 per hunter can occur) time period before hunting season if approved is pointless, does and does alone must be targeted! -He decided to only request nuisance tags under his name, my father's and mine. This will help negate the issue of numerous guys coming and going and just minimize headaches for him (which was in the letter). -We now await the State's response. Sucks that owner and us could be hunting all the way through till two weeks prior to October 1st opener but if this appeases the landowner and is another thing we can do to keep in good standing we will do it. **Update 8-1-2014** Well the state awarded the owner 10 nuisance tags to be used by only 4 hunters; owner, his wife, myself and my pops. While better than the alternative army of hunters originally desired by him...it isn't good altogether. His wife has never hunted or let alone fired a long gun ever....and has not concept of what the purpose of this nuisance animal tags is all about. She is already spouting off how she is gonna shoot one of the two giant bucks AND NOT TURN OVER THE RACK TO THE STATE LIKE IT STATES ON THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS. (this is to protect the program from becoming a trophy system used by farmers...also stresses that population control is done through doe harvest and doe harvest only). So we are strongly trying to explain to her the concept of this and how only does should be harvested...let alone showing her that withholding the rack is a federal offense outlined on the documents. So guys the grass is greener than originally thought....however now we are pressed hard for time cuz we'd like to have all of September for the property to decompress from this out of season harvesting and we have the headache of potentially keeping the owner's wife from shooting bucks (which mind you the owner himself is not for like us and understands). So will keep you guys abreast of the situation.....at a point this properties huge upsides may very well be outweighed by the early issues it seems to hold....man I wish I could afford buying my own ground.
There is always a chance the state says tough **** you chose to be a farmer in deer country? I'm sure every farmer out there would like to do that but the state can't grant all of them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh believe me I know...but this guarantees he will open the flood gates to hunters whether the state gives permits away or not. I mean hopefully he at minimum respects all we've done enough to save that till gun season but doesn't sound like that is a possibility...we talking like Cubs winning the World Series possible....yeah sure it could happen but really? (I'm a Cubs fan too sadly)
How do you know that it's not enough to warrant crop damage permits? Do you look at his books and see what his yields are and what they should be?
I've walked the fields and they don't look any worse than any of the other 4 properties I've hunted with crops. However, even if he does get the permits I've tried explaining to him it will be impossible to harvest the amount of deer needed to put a dent enough to notice with the huge swamp/unhuntable state ground that borders his property holding so many....that said though I told him if he desires deer to be harvested at a much higher rate just say the word and allow my father and I to hunt in Muzzleloader and late season doe firearm seasons. 2 hunters equipped with good tactics and approaches and understanding of the deer/property are worth far more than 10 guys just hitting the woods. We see it every year....gun season comes around and their smoke while hunting, drive jeeps through the woods to field edges (yes this happens) type hunters make the whole property shut down... ...deer will continue to damage the crop just the same if this is what he believes the answer is. I told him my lifetime license allows me to harvest 8 does with just antlerless tags and if he says to I will gladly do it....we will see what he thinks.
Dan, no I haven't seen his books exactly, we've talked numbers before though with him but his problem is he purchased the place just 3 growing seasons ago and doesn't have enough records to see if deer is an issue, and especially due to the very small number of does we even get on camera or see during hunting season that are killeable due to them holding in the swamp/state ground 99% of their time.
Sounds like you have him a viable solution. The point if my comment was that in situations like this one party always seems to feel like they're getting screwed. But, don't know all the reasoning from the other party.
The other approach I would talk to him about is allowing 10 guys to hunt the property WILL certainly make the deer nocturnal due to the amount of pressure alone. Meaning.... the deer will stay in the safe zone (Swamp) until dark and then make their way over to destroy his crop. Why not let 2 guys (you and father) he's established a good relationship with to spend more time on the property to meet his demands, rather than complete strangers with the possibility of ruining the property for everyone to hunt. All it takes is a couple knuckle heads and you wont even have the property anymore!
What we've done has made some of the doe family groups and bucks to start holding in the northern bedding area...which makes them actually a lot more (but not nearly much) huntable because now they don't have just mere feet to the fields from the swamp but a few hundred yards between that bedding and the ag fields and food plots we've put in. I will be honest I know in the end we take what God blesses us with but I guess my biggest beef is everything we've done, bought, planted, purchased and done for this farmer in order to just have bow season to ourselves prior to the onslaught is from everything he's said been wasted and his promise empty. Hopefully, my knee jerk reaction to the news is just that but it just sucks...and I perhaps went about this thread wrong and my reaction wrong...who knows.
You need to buy your own ground. No way would I plant trees for someone else. My thought as a landowner is you may have over reached how much time your on his land and doing to much to improve deer numbers when he only wanted the deer dead.
Dan I hate how your clarity is obvious sometimes bahaha! We've presented the idea and concept of how if he desires more deer down to let us try and do it for one year. If he isn't satisfied we shake hands and part ways with our current agreement....time will tell.
This was discussed and we still always ask well before anything is done...and the apple trees were planted where he desired them and the pine trees planted as he desired them...both of which weren't ideal spots for deer purposes but it was what he desired. Only time will tell... ....If I was blessed to be able to buy my own ground I would....God simply hasn't placed that blessing before me so I shall be content with what He has.
The unfortunate fact is, if you don't own or lease the private land that you hunt, at some point you will lose the right to hunt there.
Hunting is not about owning or leasing land, it is about conservation and time with your family. No one will ever take your memories, experiences and food that you provided. Keep hunting it and add another spot. I hunt an 80 acre parcel that anyone could hunt whenever they wanted. The farmer wants all deer dead. I am the only one that hunted it last year. Good luck, nothing but a blip and reminder.
It's ultimately remember this that has kinda brought me back in check. Farmer could still see the light but who knows...if not though I will go on pursuing whitetails with my father like normal...which is priceless.
That really sucks. The only thing you can do is save up and buy some property. Even my small 9 acres is a piece of heaven because it's mine. I purchased it for $14k and it's worth about $28k so all I can hope is to either work my way up to more and more property or just have multiple different properties. You never know what property you might stumble upon.
Yeah...sadly 14k gets you maybe 2 acres in much of my area....trust me I search for the swamp/scrub or "worthless" ground, but still quite expensive. I have a folder full of land potentials I continue to keep fresh and seek information on or go to doors of owners....someday.
