Tuning broadhead frustration.

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by wcm250f, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. wcm250f

    wcm250f Weekend Warrior

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    Hello all.

    I am new to this forum and have poked my head around before joining. Glad to be apart and look/learn from the knowledge posted.

    Bow spec:
    2012 Diamond Outlaw
    60-70# set at 62#
    draw length is 30.5
    qad hd
    Shooting with a release shooting easton flatlines 340 spine cut at 29 inches
    also picked up some gold tip kinetics 300 cut at 30.5.

    Here is my issue. I am having a hard time getting my slicktrick magnums 100g to hit at the same point of aim as my field tips. I have walked back tuned and then through on my rage 2 blade chisel practice tip and would shoot that starting at 20 yards and then would shoot a field tip right after. Then I would adjust my rest until I was hitting the exact same spot. I did this all the way out to 30 yards. At 40 yards I am like 1 inch apart which to me is pretty good. 50 yards is about 3 inch gap. I shot at each of these distances in a span of 5 days for about 2 hours each. I also want to mention shooting 6 arrow groups at each of those distances, I was getting the same grouping with 5 field tips and one practice head. I also would alternate which arrow had the practice head.

    Once I felt like I had the bow tuned good, I through on my slicktricks and at 20 yards I had a three inch hit right, to my field point. The rest did not need to be moved in the vertical range at all. Both impacts were parallel to the ground, so a flat line across. I couldn't believe it would be that far off since I was shooting such tight groups out to 50 yards. I tried to move the rest left to bring the broadhead and field tip together. So i moved it a 1/16 of a inch to see what the result would be. Broadhead hit point of aim and the field tip was three inches to the left.

    I played around with this for a little more and kept getting the same results. at twenty yards no matter what i did with the rest the point of aim would be three inches apart.


    At this point I cannot figure out what is the deal. From looking at the bow specs, draw length, poundage, arrow spine and length. I am shooting the correct arrow. I have no visible cam lean but then again I am the one trying to assess this when I draw the bow back. But that is where I think the problem is, maybe adjusting the twists on the yoke? What do you all say. Sorry for the long first post.


    William
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  2. BACKSTRAPASSASSIN

    BACKSTRAPASSASSIN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I could be wrong but I was always under the impression that with fixed blades more often than not you will have to tune your bow for the broadheads for hunting then tune again when you go back to target shooting.....I've never found a fixed blade that shoots like a field tip....(haven't tried that many though so I'm sure they are out there)....the mechanicals ive used on the other hand...I've never had to tune back and forth with

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  3. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    You are wrong, sorry just had to with your opening sentence. :D

    A correctly tuned bow will shoot the vast majority of broadheads to the same poi as field points. Broadheads will react more adversely to outside influences such as torque or wind but under ideal conditions, they should have the same poi.

    The op seems to have a good spine match. Maybe a little weak. Adjusting poundage down might reveal this. Torque can play a role as well. Cam lean can be another factor as can fletching contact.



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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  4. BACKSTRAPASSASSIN

    BACKSTRAPASSASSIN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Haha well I stand corrected then........still learning and def good to know because I plan on going to fixed next year and as I said never had luck with them so hopefully I can change that

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  5. wcm250f

    wcm250f Weekend Warrior

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    I find it hard to believe that I would get fletching contact as the fletching is 4 inch offset duravanes. When I have measured them compared to blazers, gold tip, and nap quick spins the duravanes are not as tall. Plus you think I would get that consistent of a group out that far of yardage?

    I forgot to mention I did turn the vote down and still could not get the slicktricks to come together.



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  6. wcm250f

    wcm250f Weekend Warrior

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    Tfox not trying to step on toes or argue, it just doesn't add up to me. I spent countless of hours on getting the right spine for these arrows and going by every online shaft selector they are calling for a 340 with 100g tip cut atty that length.

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  7. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    On line calculators are close but not exact. Bow performance plays into it as well. And I said MIGHT.

    You can have slight contact and still have amazing groups. The fletching will correct the flight rather quickly.

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  8. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    I just ran some numbers and it appears spine should not be the issue.

    I do recommend helical for fixed blade heads but I don't necessarily believe this is your issue.

    It is sounding like a cam lean or torque issue.

    Have you paper checked the bow? How was the tear?

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  9. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Go ahead and play with the yoke. Document the twist so you can return if it does not work.

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  10. Worzeth

    Worzeth Weekend Warrior

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    I had the same problem you did with slicktrick 100s. What I did was made sure my blades were indexed with my viens. If they are not properly indexed it seems like the blades fight the viens in flight.
     
  11. wcm250f

    wcm250f Weekend Warrior

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    I have paper tuned the bow. Shot bullet holes before doing the walk back and broadhead. I also spin tested each arrow. I am not sure where to start with the yoke though, I was thinking three twists tighter on the left (adding right twist) and taking away one or two on the right side. I agree documentation to keep track is a must. Would it be best to take the bow to a shop. I do not have a bow press but I was able to rig something up to relieve just the slightest tension in my brothers bow to install string leeches.

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  12. Backcountry

    Backcountry Grizzled Veteran

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    How did you index four blades with three vanes?

    To the op, perhaps you mentioned it, but I missed it, are your broadheads grouping together?

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  13. wcm250f

    wcm250f Weekend Warrior

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    I was wondering the same thing unless he had four vanes. Yes they are grouping together. This is why I am confused. I bought the slicktricks having such high hopes for them and have had nothing but frustration.

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  14. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Check paper after you have done the tuning. Try different heads. Never heard of slick tricks being a problem but there is always that chance.

    I've got a set of heads that won't group with fp's even after bareshaft tuning and having all my other heads grouping with fp's.

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  15. Backcountry

    Backcountry Grizzled Veteran

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    This, try another fixed head if possible. I have never had any troubles with tricks, but.....

    I re-read everything again. I think I would be looking at idler wheel lean next. Have you maxed out the limbs and check draw weight? Measure ATA and brace height.

    Often times I find it easier at this point to tear the bow down, re-spec, and re-build.

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  16. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    I also believe it is cam/idler lean but there is typically a tear in paper.

    Go back to centershot. Either by walk back or french tune. Then recheck paper and broadheads and work from there.

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  17. Backcountry

    Backcountry Grizzled Veteran

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    The paper tear totally blanked my mind. I guess it could tune with a lean if their is hand torque? Potentially, just another variable I suppose. These discussions/problems would be much easier solved in person.

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  18. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    Am I correct that you are "finger shooting" with a rest designed for a release? I shot fingers for over 20 years and still would if I could find a bow I liked and could afford. I absolutely loved the Center Rest Flipper with 4 or 5 inch feathers. My POI was very close with Muzzy heads to my FTs. Heavier arrows always performed better for me.
     
  19. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Absolutely. There is a large list of things that can affect tune.

    If the op is shooting fingers with a rest designed for a release, then that opens up a whole new list of issues.

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  20. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Nice catch Muzzy

    I can't believe I missed the fingers shooter.

    That requires a stiffer arrow than a release shooter. So that means your arrow is too weak. Added to that, the rest is designed for a release. A finger shooter needs a rest that has side pressure. (Plunger or spring on the side of the shaft)

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