Advantages/Disadvantages to concealed weapon permit

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by virginiashadow, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Well guys, I just happen to work around incarcerated juveniles. I have worked with at-risk youth for the last 10 years, so I know a lot of the rougher juveniles in my area. Some of those juveniles I have worked with over the years may even be 20-25 years old now. Just like any other person that has worked around those type of kids; some of the kids like me, some don't care, and some don't like me.

    So I am at the mall today with my two young kids shopping for a retirement present for my boss. I was aggresively approached by a "kid" (18-20ish) whom I worked with in the past. He put his hand out to shake mine, then said, "I am shaking your hand because I know you, not because I like you". He was with another pretty big guy. I said, "ok". I moved closer toward him so that there would be a buffer between him and my kids, plus from I know about human psychology, when an aggressive individual has the tables turned in terms of aggression, many times they fold. His friend didn't really pay me any mind, but the guy said something to the effect, "you are lucky your kids are here". At that point I said, "ok" and just looked at his face and arms. I was prepared. I even thought about striking first which would have not been good for my tall friend. But I did not. My kids were there and he had a friend. After he kind of talked a bit about his "rough" 15 day sentence (puny sentence) he said, "hey man, you are the dude that helped me out"...."you are the one who told everyone they were wrong about my sentence date and you let me out early, you are alright man". At that point he shook my hand again and left.

    My point is this...I am not getting any younger. I don't carry any weapons on me. I have worked around hundreds if not thousands of at-risk youth who now are young adults, many of which are dangerous.

    I want to know the advantages and disadvantages of obtaining a concealed weapons permit. I have fired sidearms before but have never owned a pistol. Thanks for any advice all.
     
  2. Brandon8807

    Brandon8807 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Well first off I think being able to carry sidearms would be beneficial due to the fact that a dangerous person would think twice before using his gun, because he has no idea who else around them may have a gun also. However, there is also the problem that every person that wanted to carry a gun would be able to do so as long as they go through the proper requirements. One thing that is hard to get around is the fact that a lot of dangerous people that would be carrying a gun would be doing so regardless of the law, but if concealed weapons were allowed they would have to think the repercussions through before actually using it. I do not think that it would necessarily raise crime rate do to criminals carrying them around anyways, and it could be beneficial in a way I guess. It comes down to the fact that guns do not kill people.... but people kill people, and there are a lot of people in the world that lack common sense that could result in a lot of trouble.
     
  3. Rick James

    Rick James Grizzled Veteran

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    There is no disadvantage IMHO. I'd have one if I were you, if your local laws allow you to do so legally. If nothing else, apply for the permit and wait to get the gun when you feel that you need it, so that the paperwork is already done.

    Just MHO. The other thing is that the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) people are in office now to prevent you from doing it in the future. It's harder to take it away if you already have it, compared to stopping you from starting the process.
     
  4. racewayking

    racewayking Grizzled Veteran

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    What is this concealed carry you talk about??
     
  5. brucelanthier

    brucelanthier Grizzled Veteran

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    The only disadvantage to carrying a concealed sidearm is if you are not prepared to use it. A lot of folks own guns and shoot them at targets but are not prepared to shoot at another human. If you are going to carry a gun for protection, take classes on how to use it to protect yourself and then be prepared to use it to protect yourself. There are times I would like to carry here in MD but it will never happen in this state.

    It's funny, that is how you deal with aggressive dogs also. 99 times out of 100 it is "false aggression". They have learned that if they put on this aggressive "show" that they can have their way with people. When they are faced with confidence and a lack of intimidation they back down real quickly. As you point out bullys, cowards, etc. use this tactic but fold rather easily. The problem in dogs, and humans to I suppose, is when you run into the confident aggressor . Then "there will be blood" LOL.
     
  6. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Thanks guys...my wife is not a big gun person. She believes in them but does not want them around the house. I have a 3030 and a muzzleloader but believe I need a pistol and a carry conceal permit. It might be a bone of contention with my wife. However, today was not a lot of fun and seeing my 7 year old daughter and 5 year old son scared was tough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  7. michaelp

    michaelp Die Hard Bowhunter

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    NO disadvantage what so ever. My wife was not brought up around guns so she had to get use to the idea. I always remind her about situations like Virginia Tech, if just one person legal to carry a side arm had been there, well then alot of families would not have buried their kids that day. Today was a good example for you. Now straight up, you could take the guy and probably his friend as well. What if you handed out one whoopin and his buddy decided he was not going to take his and pulls the gun, now you loose...unless you are at a gun fight with, well...a gun.
     
  8. Dubbya

    Dubbya Moderator

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    VA, I'm with Matt (RJ) on this... specifically for someone like yourself, and I'm not speaking about your line of work.

    Let me backup. I'm not trying to make this about me, but I have to speak from experience for my points to be valid. My dad has been a probabtion/parole officers for 20 years and before that he worked a the Cathedral Home for Children (troubled youth) while he was in college. He's a very mild mannered, calm and rational individual... I haven't spoken with you personally but I gather that you have many of the same traits. Generally speaking people in your line of work must have an attitude/temperment like that. For someone that is rational and aware, there is NO disadvantage of having a CWL. Where the problems occur is when someone is not prepared to use it to kill someone, or when they panic (as bruce mentioned).

    I've been the kid in the situation you described, (I didn't know exactly what was happening at the time) and it's pretty horrible to have your dad threatened (in a 7 yr. olds mind, the bad guy is always more "equipped" but in reality its the cooler, more trained individual that would prevail).

    My CWL arrived last week, I got mine after several experiences in Louisiana last fall while I was doing hurricane relief work. God gave me this life and I'll do what I can to protect it, when it's my time I'll go... but I'm not going to let someone else take that from me or any of my family if there is something I can do about it.

    A CWL shouldn't give you a sense of safety, you shouldn't feel any different the day before you get it or the day after. It's not something you use to settle a dispute, it doesn't make you an off duty officer. I know you're aware of all this, but I say this because there are things that happen and there are people out there that aren't right in the head... do yourself and your family a favor, do what you can to protect their future and yours.
     
  9. Tribal

    Tribal Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I have my carry permit but never carry it. I will be honest I don't want to shoot someone. If they are going to shoot me they will do it when I am not looking or unprepared anyway. A gun probably won't save me. Physically I don't fear many people and carrying a gun is heavy, and a inconvienience. You have to be aware of where you carry them and leaving them in the car if you can't carry it in a establishment. In your shoes I would have it, at least you have the option and it has saved lives and I have heard stories from instructors and outdoor writers that just displaying the gun to the attacker prevented anything else from happening. There are so many different stories and perspectives. Some including guys on here like Greg/MO packing heat is as normal as grabbing your wallet. I just really don't think I personally need it or would enjoy sitting in jail and waiting for the authorities to decide if it was justified. I would rather take his gun and show him how to use it. lol Half of them holding it sideways won't hit the broadside of a barn anyway.

    Pros, it can maybe save your life.

    Cons, everything else about it.
     
  10. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Thank you all for your thoughts. Dubbya, thank you for your candid response. My daughter(very perceptive young girl) asked me after the event, "dad, why did you move forward....was it because it was about ready to get rough?" hahahahaha. That is funny, but also very scary. Believe me guys, the two individuals I had the encounter with were not little people. They were not kids. Even at 18-20, they are grown men with a ton of violence inside them.

    Tribal, I hear you. I do not want to shoot anyone either. But to be honest with you, there are certain situations where I would not hesitate to raise a weapon.

    Guys, like I said, I am not getting any younger. My days of fighting and training are over, and my days of giving my kids kisses and hugs are my life now. I feel I need to be armed in certain situations. My wife is going to throw a fit, I know it. I am going to go look into purchasing a pistol this week.
     
  11. Live2Draw

    Live2Draw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    This is one of those things that i have always kinda been into. Speaking from 13 years of martial arts experiance, and a few years of tactical shooting and situational awareness classes I can say this, the only disadvantage is exactly what was previously stated, The unknown of "what happens when..." I think your best bet would be to find your local Aikido studio and hang out there for a while. I can tell you right now that a handgun would have been pointless in your situation today, or in most Altercations hapening within 12 ft. Learn a self defense, Learn to use a knife well, Carry a Kimber Life Act, and the Handgun Is ALWAYS the last resort.
     
  12. Dubbya

    Dubbya Moderator

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    VA, as long as you know that a CWL gives you the option to carry a tool to defend yourself and that what's between your ears is the biggest tool... there should be no worries. Getting a CWL doesn't mean you have to carry, it just allows you to. Again, I know you're aware but sometimes we overlook.

    Again as RJ stated, it's better to get one now and not use it than to not get it now and not be able to get it in the future.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Grizzled Veteran

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    I've been looking into it also, just to have around the house, nothing expensive, just something to have and hope I never need. I would like to eventually obtain my CWP just to have also, whether I pack it or not.
     
  14. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    I wouldn't say a handgun would have been pointless in that situation, given the unknown mindset of the aggressor. I have a been around a martial arts gym or two in my life.
     
  15. Tribal

    Tribal Die Hard Bowhunter

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    No worries virginiashadow, I know exactly where your coming from. It comes down to personal decision, I just am thankful that we law abiding citizens still have that option to decide for ourselves if we wish to carry. wOOt! I am glad nothing became of your situation except a few tense moments. Sorry the babies had to witness that. It's tough telling my kids that there are bad people out there and some that even hurt children. Those are the bastards I wish to die of lead poisoning. Good luck with the pistole I have a glock for carry purposes and like it very much! My .44 is for bathroom defense, shotgun for everything else.
     
  16. SevenMag

    SevenMag Die Hard Bowhunter

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    imho, the disadvantage to NOT having your CWP is that the cops will clean up the mess after your dead instead of stopping the many possible outcomes from happening...
     
  17. Greg / MO

    Greg / MO Grizzled Veteran

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    I've had my CCW for a few years now; I obtained it shortly after I had my first son. Like many of us "outdoorsy" former athlete-type guys on here, I was never worried about getting in a ruckus; heck, I get in some pretty good ones every Tuesday and Friday night in my martial arts training.

    The difference was for me was when I had kids. That's a different ballgame altogether, and it's harder for me to be able to defend everyone in my family simultaneously -- especially in the wrong place and/or situation.

    The biggest mistake I've seen from people who obtain CCW licenses is NOT carrying. Yes, I think it was Matt who made the very valid point first that it's a good idea to go ahead and get it regardless -- but my biggest fear would be when that truly real moment of truth arrived and I wasn't carrying; consequently, I carry EVERYWHERE. I even carry if I'm outside in my own yard. I play out all sorts of scenarios in my mind, thinking about possibilities... I live in a very nice subdivision on the back end of a golf course, but as the crow flies I'm really not that far from one of the largest interstates in the Midwest running north and south, and there's been more than one occurrence of a stranger stopping in some little rural town and grabbing someone -- and my little blond-haired boys are really, really cute. I watch every car that comes through our neighborhood closely until I've either identified it or it's passed on through.

    That's just one reason/example... but like I said, I've always got it with me just in case. Like others said, I hope I never have to kill someone (because make no doubt if I ever draw it they will be dead; I've got too much military training and otherwise to see any other outcome), but I wouldn't HESITATE to given the circumstance called for it.

    I think we'd have a whole lot less crime in our nation if everyone did so.
     
  18. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Thanks for your thoughts Greg. Yesterday was tense and by putting my kids in the mix, it caused me to rethink my gameplan so to speak.
     
  19. michaelp

    michaelp Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I am 30 and got my permit the day I tunred 21...I can't remember what life was like before I carried. Our governor passed a law allowing us to carry pretty much anywhere a year or so ago. Nothing like riding the train into Atlanta and reading the sign on the door, no firearms unless you have a permit. Makes it legal for me to have one along with all the other hoodlums who have theirs regardless of the rules. Glock (I am a fanboy) has several bigger calibers in compact and subcompact. Check out the 357 sig., the ballistics speak for themselves and you can put it anywhere without someone knowing.
     
  20. Ske1etor

    Ske1etor Weekend Warrior

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    http://www.corneredcat.com/

    Have your wife visit that site. It just may do the trick. If not, check this next one out.

    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

    That website is a collection of stories not run in the big newspapers, some not run at all.

    A firearm is the great equalizer. I carry daily and have for the past two years. Martial arts is all good and dandy to know and the Kimber Life Act (pepperspray) may help in a situation but it won't do what a firearm will do. Some criminals are not deterred by pepperspray and some criminals have fighting/martial arts backgrounds but... there is hope... for the one thing criminals aren't... is bulletproof.

    I'll leave the kung-fu to jackie chan...
     

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