Apple vs FBI - San Bernardino terrorist situation

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by MnHunterr, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    What's your take on this... Does Apple comply with the FBI requests?

    A letter from CEO Tim Cook:

    February 16, 2016

    A Message to Our Customers

    The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand.

    This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.

    The Need for Encryption
    Smartphones, led by iPhone, have become an essential part of our lives. People use them to store an incredible amount of personal information, from our private conversations to our photos, our music, our notes, our calendars and contacts, our financial information and health data, even where we have been and where we are going.

    All that information needs to be protected from hackers and criminals who want to access it, steal it, and use it without our knowledge or permission. Customers expect Apple and other technology companies to do everything in our power to protect their personal information, and at Apple we are deeply committed to safeguarding their data.

    Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us.

    For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

    The San Bernardino Case
    We were shocked and outraged by the deadly act of terrorism in San Bernardino last December. We mourn the loss of life and want justice for all those whose lives were affected. The FBI asked us for help in the days following the attack, and we have worked hard to support the government’s efforts to solve this horrible crime. We have no sympathy for terrorists.

    When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.

    We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

    Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

    The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

    The Threat to Data Security
    Some would argue that building a backdoor for just one iPhone is a simple, clean-cut solution. But it ignores both the basics of digital security and the significance of what the government is demanding in this case.

    In today’s digital world, the “key” to an encrypted system is a piece of information that unlocks the data, and it is only as secure as the protections around it. Once the information is known, or a way to bypass the code is revealed, the encryption can be defeated by anyone with that knowledge.

    The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.

    The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.

    We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.

    A Dangerous Precedent
    Rather than asking for legislative action through Congress, the FBI is proposing an unprecedented use of the All Writs Act of 1789 to justify an expansion of its authority.

    The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer.

    The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.

    Opposing this order is not something we take lightly. We feel we must speak up in the face of what we see as an overreach by the U.S. government.

    We are challenging the FBI’s demands with the deepest respect for American democracy and a love of our country. We believe it would be in the best interest of everyone to step back and consider the implications.

    While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.

    Tim Cook


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Apple spouting about their concerns regarding security privacy is laughable.
     
  3. Greg / MO

    Greg / MO Grizzled Veteran

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    I'd rather Apple have my information than the US Government. ;)
     
  4. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I doubt for one second that Apple cannot decrypt a phone if they wanted to. They know everything needed except the passcode which wouldn't be overly difficult to determine.. As for the FBI and privacy concerns. I am not worried, because I make sure there is nothing on my phone I would be worried about government or just some hacker having.
     
  5. bradn4201

    bradn4201 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Edward Snowden has the password. I work in the industry and they can get it if they wanted to without apple. But I applaud Tim for his stance against big brother.
     
  6. Dubbya

    Dubbya Moderator

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    Uh... no, I don't want the government with my data. Hillary+confidential information=bad news.
     
  7. kb1785

    kb1785 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Part of me wants to stop the terrorists and to save lives and stop any future attacks but as with any of these seemingly innocuous "one-time" things there is a bigger picture. Do we give up our liberties and freedoms to accomplish that. Do we allow and trust government employees to just use the "back-door" for this one phone. I don't think history supports that, I think once the camel's nose is in the tent you can't get him out. Abuse of power has happened regardless of which political party is in vogue so a bigger part of me says this will be abused in time also and another of our freedoms and liberties get eroded.
     
  8. Jake/PA

    Jake/PA Grizzled Veteran

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    That's what you call a slippery slope.

    I love what apple is doing but I'm sure the thought police will find their own backdoor someway or another.
     
  9. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    If you have an iPhone, there's a pretty good chance that they both have your information.
     
  10. BB4tw

    BB4tw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Both the FBI and Apple are using this situation to try and put a positive spin on their group. Th FBI is posturing about going through proper channels while Apple is doing the same about how they care about security and their customers.

    Both are full of crap. The FBI will get anything they want off that phone because iOS has more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese. In fact iOS took the second spot in 2015 for number of total vulnerabilities with 375.
     
  11. WW1

    WW1 Weekend Warrior

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    Wish they spent this much effort getting Clinton's servers.
     
  12. Cledus

    Cledus Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I don't think Mr. Cook was ever saying that the Gov't couldn't hack into their systems, he just isn't willing to let them in. Like others have said, it'd be a fast, slippery slope from there.
     
  13. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Does a know felon get the same privacy rates as a citizen? Or an alien on a visa?

    That commits a terrorist act?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  14. elkguide

    elkguide Grizzled Veteran

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    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    Benjamin Franklin
     
  15. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    She's a criminal, my question is do criminals get the same protections we do? In fact was she even a citizen?


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  16. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    Careful Germ certain people get upset when you point out that the constitution is for US citizens in the US.
     
  17. wl704

    wl704 Legendary Woodsman

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    And whose device are we really talking about...I thought the phone in question was owned by the county. What degree of privacy should be expected on your employers equipment?
     
  18. Shocker99

    Shocker99 Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't think the issue is the rights of the terrorists. The conflict that is if they create a backdoor then they can't be certain of upholding the security of the encryption....which is a joke anyway. The FBI has probably already hacked the phones but won't know how to explain their findings without everyone screaming Big Brother. If Apple complies then they have alot less to worry about covering up.
     
  19. wl704

    wl704 Legendary Woodsman

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    Big brother? You pretty much have no privacy anyways...

    Warren Buffet had an interesting observation on CNBC yesterday...your bank collaborates with the government (to monitor transactions for potential money laundering) without your consent, and your mobile carriers work with local and national law enforcement (with warrants) to try to solve crimes/locate individuals...

    I've also heard conflicting accounts of whether the request was a back door or just a request to crack this particular phones pin/passcode without destroying the phone contents. The subtle difference being the FBI stating the requirements ("the what" is needed) in the request, but not necessarily dictating the design ("how" to solution the request).

    The NY court was likely just a pitstop on the way SCOTUS.
     
  20. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Is the device and thereby the intellectual property; i.e. the operating system, encryption code, etc that is protected.
    If Apple creates the software to crack the encryption, you can bet totalitarian government's in China, Russia, and elsewhere will force Apple to hand that information over to them in order to operate as a business in those countries. Not to mention once it is in their hands, it will likely be spread over the hacker world and then nobody's phones will be secure. The old "of course the government can look in my phone, I have nothing to hide argument" saddens me. You may think you have nothing to hide, until someone in power decides the way you think, feel, and believe threaten them. Just today, news broke that after Goldman Sachs found out that an employee of theirs donated to Trumps campaign. They have suspended him without pay for violating some kind of internal hate speech policy.
     

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