I don't have time to go through all this but a Cross Bow has distinct advantages over a virtical bow. High Powered Scopes, cocked and locked all the time. If a person does not have the time to be proficiant with a weapon perhap's hunting is not for them? We owe it to the animal.
Ahhhh yes, the old blame someone else argument. The hunters of this state need to quit pointing fingers at others and look in the mirror and point it at themselves. Yes, the DNR handed out tags like candy, but the hunters filled them. What do you think was going to happen? The population wasn't going to drop? You can't continue to kill deer like we were and expect the population not to drop. What kills me is the guys who are complaining about deer numbers will still fill every doe tag they're given.
The only advantage they have is they are easier to shoot and set up. Which is great for people who don't have time. Who's to decide what's for another person? Because they don't have a lot of time, they can't partake in something they do enjoy when they do have time? We also owe it to our sportsmen brethren to allow them to enjoy the outdoors as they see fit. Afterall, allowing crossbows won't change a single thing. No matter what the boogey man tells you.
I generally like to refrain from talking the crossbow debate because people often get 'emotional' on the topic and no one ever seems to really change their mind (lets face it, as archers, we've had these conversations with our other hunting buddies 100 times - IMO - people also tend to run in 'packs' with their similar beliefs).... JZ - interesting article, obviously your very passionate about allowing crossbows, that's fine - to each their own... You make some good points, some I can reason with, some not as much. For one example, you mention the definition of a weapon.... But at the same time Webster defines an archer as "a person who uses a bow and arrow" . So as far as history and definitions go - I think that could be debated all day... 1st off, I don't mind anyone that needs to use a crossbow because of age or body using one - perfectly fine and would encourage them to do so. Also, it's not that I don't mind people using crossbows, just prefer that it's not during an archery season. To me one of the hardest points of harvesting a mature animal is drawing on the beast - obviously with a crossbow that's something the hunter doesn't have to deal with. Also not a fan of magnified scopes or red dot type sights mounted like many have. Don't like the fact that you can can shoot a CB off a rest (like from a tree stand - or use your elbows to steady yourself)... For these reasons and others, to say that a crossbow and compound have the same limitations is ludicrous. It's not that I'm trying to be selfish, it's just that I believe an archery (or any primitive) season should have certain provisions/restrictions... Kinda like muzzle-loaders - I also don't think muzzle-loader hunters should be allowed to use magnified scopes. Nothing against muzzle loaders - again, I just think that a primitive season should have certain restrictions. Do I care if allowing scopes on muzzle loaders would get more people to apply/hunt - no, I don't. Why don't we just open the deer season from July to March every year - all weapons, so no one gets their feelings hurt.... Obviously not - but its my thoughts people should hunt within the guidelines of the given season or wait for the 'any weapon' season - we're not discriminating because it's the same rules for everyone.... In my home state and in many others, archery is probably the one outdoor sport that IS seeing increases - number of deer and elk archery applicants in many areas of the country (including many vertical bow only states) has never been higher. So I'm not really buying the argument that we 'need' to do this to get more people involved.... Personally it wouldn't even bother me to see a tiered season... Example: Open Sept 15 for traditional gear only, then allow trad gear and compounds from Oct 20 - Nov 20, then allow Crossbows too from Nov 20 - Dec 1... If its legal in your state/area - good for you.. I'm not going to loose sleep or get all pissy about it... I see both sides of the argument, I really do - of course I've got my own thoughts on the subject as most everyone has an opinion - with that I'll stop babbling.... BUT - those are just my 2 cents...
So a crossbow has one bolt ready to go. Not ready to go all the time. Have you ever tried to re-nock a crossbow? Good luck with that. Try cocking that bad boy in a stand while a deer you missed is still in range. Oh and that leads me too yardage judgement. high powered scope or not, you still have to judge the yardage. To be honest, I would rather a person be in the stand with a crossbow than that same person who wouldn't be as prepared to shoot a bow be in the stand with a bow. I support the use of crossbows as long as it is legal. I do agree that more people should be educated about them and their true capabilities. Maybe even have a class similar to the hunter safety course before acquiring a crossbow license. Heck, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one for a vertical bow for that matter.
I keep reading this primitive weapon thing come up but, hasn't the crossbow been around since "primitive days"?? More primitive than an old smoke stick.
If anyone is interested we (Bass and Bucks) are holding a crossbow expo end of July in Wabash, Indiana, several crossbow manufacturers will be there and the IDNR will be there explaining all the new rules for 2012, also the manufacturers will be holding seminars on safety and how to properly use crossbows!
Crossbows are not what everyone thinks they are. The biggest advantage with one is you don't have to pull the weight and all you have to do is pull the trigger like a gun. They are still very bulky when in a treestand and much heavier to hold than a regular bow. Crossbows do have a lot more poundage than a compound bow, but the bolt of a crossbow is much shorter and lighter. By the time you shoot 40 yards with both pieces of equipment they are pretty close. The compound arrow will more than likely still out perfrom the bolt being that its longer and more stable at longer distances than a crossbow bolt. Within 20 yards no doubt the crossbow shoots harder. There is a big trade off between the two. Up to 40 yards they are about equal for most part. My Gf shoots an Excalibur Crossbow and she is legal due to a spinal operation she had. The wild thing about the situation is that regardless of her condition she could not even pull back 40lbs with a regular compound. SO MANY WOMEN WHO CANNOT PULL A BOW BACK DUE TO LACK OF STRENGTH WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPTE IN BOWHUNTING UNLESS THEY HAVE A PHYSICAL IMPAIRMENT. The goal should be to get as many people enjoying shooting and hunting. To me I think Crossbow hunting should be legal for anyone to use IMO. They would be nice to use especially in the late season when bows are tougher to pull back. There is no reason why not legalize them in my eyes. Is making it easier to hurt someone the only logical excuse not to legalize them? To me if I really wanted to I think a regular compound bow still has more stealth in that case. The point is that some politician out there has no clue. If any hunter in IL can hunt with firearms on specific days why not crossbows? When it comes to crossbows all states need to take after OHIO. Justin we are still looking to come to the shoot in June !!!!!
The argument behind "high power" optics is slightly ridiculous in that most crossbows have a 1-3x scope, which is far from high power. Secondly you can put the same magnification on your compound bow scope, with lighted and adjustable pins and you're in the same ball game as a scope. I'd rather have the public ground I hunt, filled with hunters that are very efficient with a crossbow than questionable with a vertical bow. Lets say you have a guy that decides hes going archery hunting a week before the opener. Would you rather have that hunter that has always been a gun hunter go buy a compound one week before archery season and head to the public ground you hunt? or would you rather have that same person go buy a crossbow and head to the woods you hunt? I want the guy with the crossbow, in that scenario... Give him the easiest thing to be proficient with, he's going one way or the other and he has the same right you and I have to hunt. I want him killing stuff dead instead of shooting stuff with a poorly fitted, untuned vertical bow from bass pro that he's had for a week. Sure I'd like the guy to buy one in may and start shooting then, but that's not how people work... And it never will be.
I look at it like this....for me I don't hunt with a gun, i don't hunt Coyotes, Foxes, etc.....and haven't harvested a Doe in several yrs either (which all of the above alot of people do) ...but that's my right, it's legal and it's my choice and decision .....so the Crossbow issue for me is like this..if it's legal and well within the guidelines of your state then by all means enjoy it and go hunt something with it......
I see both sides of the debate and have two examples of Friends that use Crossbows now that FL has legalized them. 1st: the guy is an absolute Gun-nut hates bows and only wants to shoot and blow stuff up, He bought a crossbow so he can hunt the early season with all the rest of us to kill does. We can harvest does throughout archery season, and only one week during gun. Total Tool and I tell him so. 2nd: This guy is a Workaholic, gone on business at least 5 days a week and only gets a few days a year to hunt and loves to bow hunt but no time to practice he bought a crossbow, he can sight it in a couple of hours and be able to hunt during archery. He is a responsible guy, and wants to make sure he has the best chance to make a clean kill. there are both types out there and the former puts a bad taste in most archer's mouth. The second is a guy a respect and want him to succeed, and want him to have the ability to do so. But then you do have the guy that is going to shoot the day before the hunt and thinks because he can hit a pie plate with one arrow at 20 yards he is good to go. I believe it is the hunter behind the weapon that matters, not the weapon they use that matters. You will always have bone heads out there no matter what.
Excellent article Justin! I have to say I'm in agreement with what several others have stated... I would MUCH rather have someone in the woods who is proficient with a crossbow than someone who isn't proficient with a vertical bow. Safer for others who are in the same woods and better chance of killing an animal rather than just injuring it
I'm still on the fence with some pieces of the crossbow debate, though I do lean more toward being in favor of them. I've seen and heard all of the points in the article when PA went through the whole debate. I think when you start referring to the dictionary terms for something you start losing people. Sorry, but I don't really care about the true definition of archery or bow is. However, if I"m not mistaken, aren't crossbows older than vertical bows? PA went through that whole mess. Honestly, I didn't care either way as it didn't affect me personally. We have a very vocal group called the United Bowhunters of PA. They claimed that the inclusion of crossbows would decimate herds in early season. That never happened. We had them and other groups claim that more people would buy a crossbow instead of a vertical bow. That really hasn't happened either. So here in PA, it's not really affecting much. But, make no mistake about it, the PA xbow law change was definitely driven in part, by the lobbying from the xbow companies. My only reservation with crossbows is this. If a guy comes into a shop and buys one, every shop should give the guy a mandatory rundown on what its capable of and what it is not. I've heard too many guys already talk about shooting deer at 75 yards with one because of course it has a 250# draw weight so it must mean its more powerful. Too many inexperienced hunters will hunt with a crossbow like they do with a gun if they're not educated. It also worries me that our new generation of hunters, just coming into the sport will never bother with hunting with a vertical bow. Taking the easy road seems to be the popular choice these days. I'm in agreement that I'd much rather have someone who can't put the time in with a bow, buy an xbow and cleanly kill a deer with it instead of being forced to hunt with a standard bow and wound deer each year. However, this brings up a question. If you know you can't accurately shoot a compound because you're too busy to practice and put some effort into it, then why archery hunt that year? Why not just pass that year and maybe next year you'll be ready to go? But, everyone these days thinks that it's a right to hunt, not a privilege. Either way, it has no effect on my hunting style. Until the good lord tells me I can't pull a bow back, I'll keep on hunting with a compound. After that, I'll look into the alternative maybe.
I have no problem with this. He wants to shoot does, and the crossbow allows him to. You'd still think he was a tool if he only gun hunted. The only reason I bought a bow, was to lengthen my deer hunting season from 9 days to 3 1/2 months. Sure, I've grown to love archery, and now bowhunt during the MN rifle season, but it started as a means to enjoy hunting more. I personally do not have any interest at this point to shoot a crossbow, but I don't have a problem with someone who does.
I agree that the people selling these pieces of equipment should do their best to educate people on their proper use, but let's face facts, they can talk until they are blue in the face and it may not sink in for some people. Additionally, shopping online has changed the game in this regard. Anyone can order a crossbow online and run out and start shooting it. However, the same can be said for a vertical bow or a gun. There's plenty of people who purchase compound bows and have no business hunting with them, but nobody ever talks about that. This is more a product of our society and parenting than it is the legalities surrounding weapon choice. While I too would prefer that young hunters get to experience the joys of shooting a vertical bow, limiting their options only hurts us in the long run. I'd rather have a kid pick up a crossbow and go hunting than stay inside and play video games or be out getting into some sort of trouble. Times change, and we have to change with them. Because hunting is about so much more than the physical act of the shot. People have busy lives these days - between work, kids and other obligations our free time is increasingly short. Just because you don't have a lot of free time to dedicate to becoming proficient with a vertical bow doesn't mean that you don't still enjoy getting out into the woods a few times during the fall. If the ethical decision to use a weapon that you can be more proficient with in a shorter amount of time means using a crossbow, than so be it. I could not agree more with this statement.
I am not trying to pick on MM88 but I just want to highlight how this may have sounded when compound bows first came out and bow hunters that used recurves and longbows reacted: Compound bow users shoot deer at distances of 75+ yards and many don't seem to mind but all hell breaks loose if someone suggests a xbow user would do the same. Shooting deer with a compound bow is not hard at all. If it was, then there would be a whole lot less people doing it. To claim that using a xbow during archery season makes it any easier than using a compound bow during archery season is BS and a smokescreen to hide the fact that people are upset that there may be more hunters during their season and those hunters might shoot their buck.
I do not think that someone arguing against crossbow usage during the early bow season is hurting our hunting community at all. People have a right to their opinion and we can't always just be non-judgmental when talking about hunting related topics. To many times people pull out the "if you are arguing against one form of hunting you are hurting the entire hunting community". It is a scare tactic and it is weak. One of the main arts of bowhunting is the draw...with crossbows you do not have to draw, which changes the game significantly. I can see why some people might have a problem with allowing crossbows during the early bow season. That being said, I grab my bow, walk into the woods, and hunt. I don't care if a person uses a trad bow, compound, or a crossbow during bow season. I am going to be succesful in the deer woods, regardless of what others do.
I currently dont know a single person with a crossbow,the local proshop sells them but i have yet to see any one buy one. It's all a hype to sell more tags and magazines the facts are that hunter safety classes the numbers are way down and the country's baby boomers are getting older and out of the woods for good in ten years there will be real shortcoming's in the money flow to the states conservation's budgets but they wont cutback there spending instead they are selling tags for hunting with spears and sticks even sling shots, how about air guns also. it's simple they are broke. It's like lets make a deal of deer hunting shows. They will do anything to sell tags.
I beg to differ. When these controversies come up, hunters tend to start slinging as much mud as they can to try and get their way. Claims of unethical hunters taking long shots, hunters not taking the time to become proficient with a weapon, taking running shots, wounding deer, etc are bountiful in these arguments. While it may be an unfortunate truth to some extent, it provides a great deal of fodder for those opposed to hunting. After all, these are our own words, admitting that these things are happening. I personally don't feel the future of hunting is in nearly as much jeopardy as some groups would like you to believe, however I do feel that the arguing and in-fighting definitely makes supporting and expanding our cause more difficult.
