Till vs no Till plots

Which do you prefer for food plotting and why?

 

We've always been the till type...however if you master the no-till method it is an awesome and best way to introduce organic matter back into the soil without ripping and mixing the first 4-6 inches. We have started doing a few no-till spots....verdict still out on growth comparison.....work comparison though is extremely apparent. :D

 

I till also. I wouldn't mind going no till, and hopefully I can eventually get a 3pt 2 row planter. I don't ever see myself getting a grain drill though due to the cost of the drill and equipment needed to run it.

 

If money wasn't an option I would get a drill, but I'm discing still to this point. Going to experiment a little with no till in the next few weeks, but not really sure what to expect.

 

Yeah drills are the best full proof way to have successful no till without a lot of seed loss.

Ditto...sad thing is everyone I talk to that does no-till methods state you seed much heavier because you simply don't get the same soil to seed contact for obvious reasons. Jim Ward does no tilling at all basically with great success...however he like myself isn't as afraid of weeds as some are as most the deer browse anyways.

 

You mean vs a planter as mentioned in that post? Actually that isn't accurate Ty, it just depends on what a person is planting and intended goals are. I no-till my corn in with a 30", 8 row planter every year and I use a no-till drill for wheat, soybeans, clovers, peas, etc...
Possibly what you meant is drilling vs broadcasting? which would make that statement true.

I don't know who you're talking to about no-till drilling but there seems to be some miscommunication here as well. Unless a no-till drill a person is using is a POS, there should be no soil to seed contact issues. Where a generally heavier seeding rate comes into play with a drill vs a planter is the drills rows are generally much closer together. These closer rows allows more rows in a field and better utilization of space as well as solar energy into crop production, besides having several other intentional benefits like faster canopy closure and higher yields.
Weeds should be no more of an issue with no-till than with conventional tillage. Control measures are a bit different is all.

First and second year comparisons between no-till and conventional till plots/crops will slant in favor of the conventional tillage. It takes 2-3 years for benefits of no-till to begin to show up after switching over from conventional tillage to no-till. Tillage destroys soil organic matter and soil life like microbes, bacteria and earth worms that do the job of tillage naturally, it takes a while out of tillage for those things to normalize and the soil to begin to heal back from tillage.

Changing over definitely means a new learning curve and likely less productive crops the first couple of years but the changes to the soil afterwards as well as the reduction of input labors, fuel, wear and tear, etc... more than makes up for it and after that third year you'll understand what's so sweet about it. Into and after the third year, production will pick up and increase annually, it's about this time that the thought of hooking a disk or a plow up just makes your stomach churn.

 

Control measures you mean as far as herbicide or cultivation? Because tillage can and definitely will knock out the first flush of weeds in the spring.

 

True no-till doesn't include any cultivation so yes, I meant herbicides. Tillage will knock out the first flush of weeds in the spring but so can herbicide and either way, weeds have to be controlled for the remainder of the season typically by herbicides anyway. Tillage will simply refresh the soil seed bank. It's simpler to include a residual control herbicide in the initial burndown and be done with it all in one pass. Speaking for myself, I don't like to double the acres I have to drive over in a season because of having to make another pass over the same ground I already worked on.

 

Haha duh, brain fart.

I am all for no till on large scale farming but for a lot of guys, it just doesn't work. Definitely saves on the compaction and fuel bill though.

 

I'm sure there are a few legitimate cases where no-till isn't viable but I've yet to see a real one. Most of the time when I've heard guys disclaim "no-till just won't work for my operation, I've tried it and it failed", I'll chat with them a bit to see if I can understand why they had the experience they did. About 7/10ths of the time I find out they tried it one year and their yields dropped so they hooked back on to the disk the next season. Of the remainder of them, some just felt it took too much planning and changing from what they knew and the others never wanted to give it a fair chance to start with.

The closest to a legitimate claim is that soil doesn't warm fast enough for spring corn. The problem is I know guys in northern states that do no-till corn and have tremendous yields so that claim is generally false.

 

Loving all the great info guys! What do you guys think of this drill?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabe...yIds=104796180|634999680|540478080|382656780|

 

Would probably work but it isn't a no-till drill. That type drill is more of a minimum till drill, those front coulters are pretty aggressive. It's basically like a plotmaster machine.

 

I thought it said no till somewhere. I think you could make it no till but I could be wrong. What would be a good no till drill? And what steps do you take for plotting with no till drills?

 

The specs sheet for that Cabelas drill says it can be used as a no-till but it wouldn't perform well as a true no-till because it just drops the seed on top. If this is the type of no-till drill Tyni's contacts are using I can see why soil to seed contact would be an issue.
No, a no-till won't typically have cupped disks that chew up the soil, they will have either double disk row openers alone or sometimes they will also have no-till coulters that look like a flat/wavy rolling cutter that just cuts residue and loosens a narrow strip where the row unit plants the seed. The exception to that is the Truax drills, they have cupped coulters in front of opener disks but they are adjustable to provide tillage in degrees and the unit will still plant if they aren't even contacting the soil...I mean actually open a seed slot and place the seed at a regulated depth.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...no-till+drill&qpvt=4'+no-till+drill&FORM=IGRE

There are a ton of different mfg of all sorts of no-till units out there. John Deere, Great Plains, Sunflower, Case IH, Truax, Land Pride, Haybuster, Tye, Kasco....just to name a few. I own a Sunflower 15' that just uses double disk openers to cut the seed slot and it works fine. Great Plains makes a fantastic designed drill, arguably the best on the market, my landlord has a 5' wide Truax and it's fair but I'm not crazy about the design of a lot of the units key parts.

A "good" no-till drill will have double disk openers on the row unit, preferably staggered double disk openers where one runs slightly ahead of the other one (they cut better). It would also have at least two seed boxes, one for large seed and one for small seed (a third one would be for fluffy seed). It would have convenient and dependable depth adjustment on the press wheels following behind the row units as well as an overall unit pressure control. It will have press wheels that follow the row and ensure good seed to soil contact.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...880&thid=JN.xKAsouRWP8Ez80aIMikUOw&ajaxhist=0

http://www.landpride.com/products/73/606nt-compact-drills

Steps to take for no-tilling food plots. Chemical burndown (with roundup or 2,4D (wait a week with 2,4D before planting). Determine what is to be planted and what residual weed control chemicals are available for the food plot species you want and application practices specifically needed. Soil test. Fertility amendments. Plant food plot. Maintenance as needed for specific species.

 

Sorry for the delayed response...I'm a micro plotter by nature and design and when I say no till I ain't using a drill...I ain't using a tiller it is prep soil with herbicide and maybe rake or drag or mow before seeding. Hence my comment. Those of you no tilling larger spots with drills are an entire different conversation sorry for the major misinformation and confusion.

 

Ah, that explains a lot...so you were talking about broadcast seeding basically. Cool, whatever gets it done and works.

 

Yes, sad fact is I lost that in translation due to commenting on a drill method but then switching (needed more coffee yesterday pretty sure haha)

 

I appreciate all of the advise! Great info in these posts.

 

Most local Farm Service Agencies (FSA) have no-till drills to rent for like 8-$10 an acre if you have a tractor to pull it. They generally have the Great Plains drills but I've sen some use Truax too. They are usually used hard and put away wet so-to-speak but they will work and they are cheap. FSA is also knows as USDA service centers.

 

Ill have to look for that but the area I hunt is focuses more on livestock and horse breeding now. My only issue with no till is that i would have to spray chemicals on the ground which i really don't want to do. Guess ill just have to deal with weeds then.