I'm new to archery, and just picked up a 2014 PSE drive (28" draw length, 60#). I just calculated the finished weight of my arrows, and I'm arriving at a 371.75 grain finished weight (I'm going to put them on a scale to get an exact weight). Here's how I've arrived at that weight: 400 spine Easton Bloodline arrows - 7.7 gpi - cut to 27.5" Weights: 211.75 - arrow 18 - Blazer fletchings 10? - crest 23 - insert 9 - nock 100 - field points / Rage Hypodermic I went to Field and Stream to get setup with arrows and took their advice, but upon further research, I'm doubting their advice. I'm somewhere around the 6.15-6.4 grains per lb of draw weight. Should I be running heavier arrows to ensure a clean pass through? This is the shooting block that I've been using, and I seem to be getting a good 9-12" of penetration out the back side of the target at 20 yards. I haven't pushed out any further because, like I said, I'm new to archery and want to hone my skills and dial in my bow at that distance before pushing the target out to 30, 40, 50...
If you ask me this question the answer is always "yes," especially if you are shooting large thin bladed Expandables. But that is only one opinion.
So if I were to be shooting a fixed blade broadhead, your opinion would be that 6-6.5 grain/lb would be fine?
That light... my opinion is cut on contact... something in the line of a Muzzy phantom or a Slick Trick standard. Or a 2 blade head like a Buzzcut. Again nothing but one man's opinion.
So, Muzzy Man, if I understand you, you would go with aluminum over carbon arrows? I, too, am new to modern bow hunting, so need all the information I can get...
Not necessarily. There are plenty of good carbons with sufficient weight to do the job quite nicely. Carbons are much easier to find and find accessories for. However, the lighter the arrow gets, the more tune sensitive it tends to get. Many guys have great success with Rage heads and carbon arrows, I am not knocking either of them. I just prefer fixed heads and heavy aluminum arrows though I have only recently made the switch back to aluminum after being disappointed with carbons for a couple years. Heavy arrows and the bows shooting them are generally quieter and at least for me, seem to penetrate better. Feathers definitely seem to help with tuning issues though I would caution against expecting feathers to fix incorrect spine, tuning flaws or bad shooting form. I will say, there are a lot of prejudices against aluminum arrows. I'd stay away from anything with a thinner wall than 14 or 15. That is the second number in say a 2315. That is 23/64ths diameter and 15 hundredths wall thickness. Any thinner than this and you may as well shoot carbon. Quality aluminum arrows like XX75s with thick walls are tough as nails. (There are plenty more great opinions out there... listen to them too before making any changes... especially tfox.
All I can say is 2219s with 5 inch feathers from my Hoyt are the best shooting combination I have ever shot. I have an Apache rest and will be shooting fixed 125 grain heads which hit exactly the same as my field tips out to 40 yards. I am at 70 lbs and 30 inch arrows.
A little bump/update... I finally got around to weighing my finished arrows. 376 grains, finished. I'm debating on switching to 125 grain tips and seeing how the flight is.
This is a debate that will live forever. I like both for different reasons, but heavier is truly better.
I shoot a similar set up. PSE Dream Season, 60 lbs draw, and 376 grain arrows. I shot Slick Trick Mags for a while. but now shoot Ramcats. Every deer and bear I've shot has had the arrow pass through it like butter. If you want to add more weight to your set up, and get better penetration....shoot a 125 grain quality fixed blade like the Qad Exodus, any slick trick, ramcat, etc... The extra weight upfront will give a higher % FOC, which is preferred by most for their hunting arrows. Just my opinion.
There are some heavy carbon arrows that are way better than aluminum. Ted Nugent 400 arrows are 9.3gpi which is a great gpi number. But in all reality a higher FOC arrow is a lot better to have than just a super heavy arrow. Get yourself some good carbon arrows like Carbon Express Maxima Reds, or Blue streaks, or blue streak selects, or Easton Hexx and put a 100g brass insert in their and than a 85 or 100g tip with some 2in blazer vanes and a standard nock you will have a amazing all around arrow that will out penetrate any heavy arrow because of it's high FOC( front of center) expecially if it has a good quality fixed blade head on it. Just my 2 cents on this. Higher FOC is always better than a super heavy arrow with a low FOC percentage.
Nothing against anything you've said but what would quantify them as being a lot better or out penetrate. There are many who raise serious doubts about FOC. I hear what you are saying but have you ever actually shot a heavy aluminum arrow. Again, I am not knocking carbons. Aluminums definitely raise a few issues but penetration is not going to be one of them, nor is durability, unless your experience is with the thin walled sizes which I believe are inferior to carbon in every way possible or the el cheapo "Gamegetters." One point about high FOC I raise is that spine deflection always increases as FOC increases. There are a lot of variables for arrows such as gpi, FOC, type of vane/feather used, dynamic spine, bow noise, arrow noise, broadhead noise, cutting diameter, length to width ratio, mechanical vs. fixed, COC vs. Crushing tip, downrange trajectory, deflection on obstacles and dozens more which must be considered before claiming one is better or a lot better than the other. I am simply saying... for my money... the 2219s win the battle. If someone wants to shoot something else, I don't care. I would encourage anyone that doesn't mind the slower and quieter approach to try a heavy aluminum with feathers and make their decision based on experience... I have a feeling they will be impressed. Those more interested in flat shooting would be best advised to stay carbon. In the end... shoot what works for you and what you have confidence in. One additional issue concerning the light and fast vs. slow and heavy argument is there is a point of diminishing returns where lightening the arrow does begin to increase momentum.
You raise a very good point and I am not trying to knock aluminum arrows by any means there is some amazing aluminum arrows out their as well. I think my wording could have been changed to my opinion is that carbon has a lot of benefits over aluminum but in the end I think A proper FOC arrow will be a superior choice due to it's ability to penetrate farther than a arrow with I proper FOC I did shoot the easton FMJ and I loved them, they were so quiet. But so are my Carbon Express Maxima Reds with a 100g brass insert that has a greater weight than the FMJ. I have not conducted a research on this but if I ever do I will make sure to do a comparison because I feel it would be a great study. You do raise a very good point though. A heavier arrow will out penetrate a light arrow but if the two arrows weighed the same and the FOC was greater on arrow a lets say 14.6% FOC and arrow B had a FOC of 9.2% arrow A would out penetrate arrow B due to it's greater FOC. But high to FOC can be detrimental as well.
One complaint I do have about 2219s is the difficulty in controlling FOC. I have no data, but do wonder if it plays a bigger role with lighter GPI shafts, especially with my longer draw length.
That would be cool to find out, I looked for about 3 hours trying to find some 2219 weighted inserts and couldn't find a thing. Not that I would use them since I shoot carbon
I shoot 371 grain arrow and shoot two last year with pass through no problem with NAP spitfires but I was shooting 65 lbs. Now I have grim reapers white tail specials this year haven't shot a deer yet to see if I'll have a pass through. But sometimes your your not going to if you hit a bone or something pretty good it will kill moment a lot for a pass through not say you can't have a pass through but it can stop it
Someone on here says: build your arrows, not for when things go right but for when they go wrong. Heavy and solid deal w8th bones better. I am trying some 125 Sniffers this year.
