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  1. #16
    maxpetros's Avatar
    maxpetros is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Shot View Post
    Jamesinator,

    Interesting and very good to know, thanks. I really need to get down to Targeteers in Saddle Brook (as it is the closest and best shop I can make it to with ease, just nervous about it as I have heard from reviews that they can be rude/unprofessional sometimes. Even when buying $2000 worth of equipment.) to check it out and get some lessons. I hope they do lessons w/ compounds as the 2 shops in NYC don't, which I think is a little ridiculous (Hello? Do you want my business/money or no?).
    Hey black shot. I'm also from nj. I use targeteers. Some reviews are bad but rob is a really nice guy he will definitely help you. At first he will be a bit impatient but once you get to know him he is a great guy and a fantastic help and will do a great job setting up your bow. And he remembers customers names and is very polite when you get to know him.
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  2. #17
    chopayne is offline Senior Member Die Hard Bowhunter
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    Hey,

    I spent $1700ish on my first bow and ive rarely shot. Hopefully I stick with this sport. Are you looking to buy a bow on a budget?

  3. #18
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    Chops,

    You don't mind if I call you Chops?

    With the bows I have been looking at, I think the cheapest was about $699-$899 or so (a Bear) and I was figuring, all said and done (arrows, hard case, setup, lessons, target/s) that I'd be dropping at least $1500-$1700. Though I am not rich, I don't mind this, as long as I get exactly what I want/need and am happy with it.

    I have always been a nut for ancient/medieval/modern weapons, armors and tactics, and having a great bow to add to my collection would leave me ecstatic. I wouldn't just let it sit on a shelf and be like "ooooh, pretty!" I eventually want to hunt and bag me a tasty deer. Venison happens to be my top meat choice and I have always been fascinated with hunting/hunters and being able to track an animal via all the tells in the wild. I just wish I had been able to get into this sport earlier in life, but my parents were always a little scared of giving their kids weapons.

    My current bow choices listed below. I have mentioned it before a few times in multiple threads, but besides actually handling/shooting these, my biggest caveat is nailing down my DL (I think it's at least 29-30in, but could be more as I am 6'3-4), exactly, which is why there are so many. But, please, do let me know what you think.


    Bear: Anarchy / Motive 6,7 / Method
    Bowtech: Insanity CPX,CPXL
    Darton: 3800
    Elite: Pure
    G5: Defy / Impact
    Hoyt: Spyder Turbo / Spyder 34,34LD
    Martin: Nemesis 35 / Seeker
    Matthews: MR6 / MR7
    Obsession: Knightmare

    I just really wish I was rich, cause I really like all of these! I guess I should start playing more mega millions
    Last edited by Black Shot; 04-11-2013 at 11:58 AM.
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  4. #19
    Remy003 is offline Junior Member Newb
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    I'm looking to get a new wrist release and I've been looking at the Scott Sabertooth because mine is velcro and I want a buckle, and second of all I'm small so my release needs to be adjustable to accommodate for my small fingers.

  5. #20
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    Maxpetros,


    Thanks a lot. Do you know if they offer lessons w/ compound bows? I saw in the pictures on the website that it seems like they do. Most of the places closer to me don't and I always think it's best to practice w/ what it is you intend to master. Also, will they let you learn on a bow you have interest in? I know some might be harder to handle for a novice at the very beginning, but I'd like to try all the bows I have listed below, minus the ones they might not carry, like the Knightmare.


    Bear: Anarchy / Motive 6,7 / Method
    Bowtech: Insanity CPX,CPXL
    Darton: 3800
    Elite: Pure
    G5: Defy / Impact
    Hoyt: Spyder Turbo / Spyder 34,34LD
    Martin: Nemesis 35 / Seeker
    Matthews: MR6 / MR7
    Obsession: Knightmare
    Last edited by Black Shot; 04-11-2013 at 12:31 PM.
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  6. #21
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    Hey Guys,

    The other things I was looking at were arrows and arrow fletching. It seems that the Bitzenburger Jig w/ the Zenith upgrade pack is the mack daddy of all the different jigs. Anyone have any thoughts on this and exactly what parts make-up everything you would need to do all types of fletchings? I'm a righty so would only need the right helical and straight.

    Also, what is the deal with bow presses? Even if you have an self-adjustable bow, is it still a good thing to have a press?

    I figure if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it up right and learn to do all for myself. I was also thinking to get some books on the subject of all things archery but was wondering if there are any really good ones.
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  7. #22
    maxpetros's Avatar
    maxpetros is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Shot View Post
    Maxpetros,


    Thanks a lot. Do you know if they offer lessons w/ compound bows? I saw in the pictures on the website that it seems like they do. Most of the places closer to me don't and I always think it's best to practice w/ what it is you intend to master. Also, will they let you learn on a bow you have interest in? I know some might be harder to handle for a novice at the very beginning, but I'd like to try all the bows I have listed below, minus the ones they might not carry, like the Knightmare.


    Bear: Anarchy / Motive 6,7 / Method
    Bowtech: Insanity CPX,CPXL
    Darton: 3800
    Elite: Pure
    G5: Defy / Impact
    Hoyt: Spyder Turbo / Spyder 34,34LD
    Martin: Nemesis 35 / Seeker
    Matthews: MR6 / MR7
    Obsession: Knightmare
    They will let you try out the bows which is good. I'm pretty sure they do lessons with compounds but I'm not 100% sure.
    2014 DEER CONTEST TEAM 26
    2014 ELITE ENERGY 32
    72/27.5
    CBE TEK HYBRID
    TROPHY TAKER SMACKDOWN PRO
    EASTON FMJ 421 GRAINS FINISHED WEIGHT
    TROPHY TAKER ULMER EDGE
    TRU BALL SHORT N SWEET RELEASE
    BSTINGER STABILIZER

  8. #23
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    Hey All,

    I was just researching some targets today, as I will need mainly, large indoor ones with little to no pass-through. From what I saw they are mostly crap if you're not going to spring for a $100+ target.

    Two interesting items I came across were the Morrell Humungo Broadhead Target ($30) and the other was not a target at all, but rather just industrial/commercial grade styrofoam blocks that you can buy from Lowes or Tractor Supply Co (was cautioned, via archerytalk.com, not all foam is created equal, some are denser than others).

    Apparently if you're lucky you could just ask them for their shipping foam blocks and if your really lucky they will be willing to just give them to you, instead of making you pay for them. If you can get some, you then stack them to your preference and duct tape them together tightly (you can bag them in burlap or tarp, or even hit them with some Great Stuff Foam in a can for extra padding), then draw your own targets. Kinda sounds too good to be true.

    I was going to ask if anyone has had any experience with the Lowes/Tractor Supply Co. Foam Blocks and/or Morrell Humungo Broadhead Target and if either is as good as the reviews say?
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  9. #24
    Sticknstringarchery's Avatar
    Sticknstringarchery is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Dang there is a bunch of new guys floating around this joint lately. First off, welcome to the forum.

    Now for a bow. My suggestion like some others is go towards the middle with your axel to axel bow choice. Shooting fingers or not, this is an advantage to a longer drawing archer. This does a few things. It makes your string angle less which is more comfortable an more consistent. More consistent in the fact that you don't have to "dig" your head into position to anchor. This also is more comfortable and more repeatable. Repeatable is consistent and consistency is key. Consistency equals accuracy and accuracy is encouraging, especially coming into archery. The wrong set up for an archer in the beginning is very frustrating and that doesn't make for a happy beginner.

    You also want a longer brace height, especially being a long draw archer. Your power stroke or amount of time your string is in contact pushing the arrow is much longer than say a 27" archer so a longer brace height makes for more forgiving (more accurate) set up. In other words torquing the bow had less effect on accuracy. Think about it this way. If you take a stick that is 24" and put the pivot point 6" from one end the other end moves so far. Now take the same 24" stick and move the pivot point 7" from the end the opposite end will move less. Lets say for sake of argument that the movement was only 1" more at 6". That 1" at 10yd may only be 1/2" but, at 40 that's 2" off. Add human error and you could easily double that to 4". Take that 24" stick with the pivot point back at 6" and make the stick 30" and thats an even bigger difference in movement that is magnified that much more. Now I didn't sit down and do the math so those numbers may be off but, you get the picture. If not ill try harder to describe the effects of brace height.

    Longer riser bows are more stable. They aren't as easy to Cant (out of level). Canting is when the bow is not vertically level. Meaning the top or bottom is leaning left or right when at full draw.

    An archer needs to balance all the factors to their draw length to achieve a high rate of accuracy. If your draw length is 26" and you are shooing a 30" axel to axel bow with a 6" brace height, you would more than likely be more consistent than a 30" draw archer shooting the same bow. Why? The bow is more stable and more comfortable to shoot for the short draw archer due to the string angle, shorter power stroke and the brace height not effecting the power stroke as much. It's basically a ratio. Longer draw=longer brace height, axel to axel and longer riser.

    If I were you I would steer clear of anything shorter than 34". I am a 29" draw and I won't go below that again. I went from a 38" ATA to a 32" ATA and hated the bow. Couldn't get consistent. Switch to a 34+" ATA and I'll never go back.

    As for target or hunting set up, go with the 34"-38" ATA Bow. I use my hunting rig for both and if I do anything different this year it will be add stabilizers. So I personally recommend a 34"+ ATA, 7" brace height bow with a longer riser.

    As for finger shooting a compound, I wouldn't say it can't be done but, I do recommend a release. They are more accurate and consistent. My wife is a finger shooter but, she is drawing 45lb. She also has a beautiful repeatable release that just came natural to her. She can't shoot as many shots in a session as I can due to her fingers hurting either though an that's only 45lb.

    As far as a target, bags are great for beginners.

    In the end only you can decide which bow is best for you. I will say if you follow the guidelines I listed above you will more than likely see why I suggested all that. Now go shoot some bows and come back to this thread and keep us posted.
    TEAM KILL!!!!!!

    Walk-On Archery National Pro Staff Coordinator

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  10. #25
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    SticknString,

    Now that is a hell of an answer (in a good way)!

    I think I get what you are saying. That is why I haven't completely made up my mind on which bow to choose (especially since I haven't shot any and am still unsure of my exact DL) but for some reason I keep coming back to the Hoyt Spider 34 LD and the Bowtech Insanity CPXL (something about them just resonates with me, even from a cold stand point. One could say the bows are choosing me). The other bows I really like are the Matthews MR6/7, but they are 33". The best compromise looks to be the Bear Anarchy.

    My only problem with the longer ATA bows is the speed reduction that seem to plague all of them. I'd love a 38"+ ATA for the Long Bow aspect of it, but they are always so slow and heavier and I'm not as strong as I once was (particularly when equipped w/ all the add-ons).

    I agree with you on the target/hunting practice using the same bow. I would be doing the same because I only have enough money for (1) bow and that's why it needs to be all around excellent. Screw Hunger Games, for me it's all about Robin Hood

    After taking into account your advice on the ATA length, I re-adjusted my list to the following:
    APA- Mamba X8
    Bear- Anarchy**
    Bowtech- Insanity CPXL**
    G5- Impact (assuming my DL is no more than 30"), Centroid LR (actually looks better than I 1st thought)
    Hoyt- Spider 34 LD *** (I just really like this one, can't explain it)
    Martin- Nemesis 35, Scepter V (actually not bad speed for such a big bow)
    Matthews- MR6*, MR7*
    Mission- Voyager XT
    Obsession- Lethal Force II ( though I still like the Knightmare, but DL is still a question/problem)

    * = degree of favoritism.
    Last edited by Black Shot; 04-12-2013 at 06:50 PM.
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  11. #26
    Sticknstringarchery's Avatar
    Sticknstringarchery is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Please do yourself a favor and add the G5 Prime Impact to that list. 340fps is the speed. I know I said stray away from a short brace height bow but, this bow seriously does not shoot like one. Probably due to the Parallel cam technology.

    Just a small piece of advise, your probably going to be in the ballpark of 30". Don't worry about speed. Here is why. A friend of mine shoots a bow rated for 340. He has a 28" DL. My bow is made by the same company an rates at 330. I am a 29" just one inch over his. My bow shoots the same weight arrow at 291. His is at around 280 or so now if I remember correctly and our weights were the same. both maxed out 60lb bows maxing around 63lb. Most of today's bows are above 310. The average DL archer never sees anywhere near the IBO speeds. Proper arrow set up with the proper Broadhead, any flag ship bows would be more than enough.

    You have some great bows listed there. Out of your list my personal favorite was the Insanity CPXL.

    I shoot a G5 Prime Centroid. It's a little over 34" ATA. My last bow was a Hoyt Carbon Element.

    About weight, light weight is much over rated. I'm not saying shoot an 8lb finish weight bow by any means but, don't be scared of a 4.2 or 4.3lb bow. Once you get accurate at close distances and start shooting longer distance, you will appreciate the little extra weight. I added almost a pound to my element before it was a good solid holding bow.

    Go shoot this list of bows you have.
    TEAM KILL!!!!!!

    Walk-On Archery National Pro Staff Coordinator

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  12. #27
    Sticknstringarchery's Avatar
    Sticknstringarchery is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Just saw you have the Impact listed. Not sure how I overlooked that. I would shoot it before you buy though. Be willing to wait or it though. I think it's around 8-12 weeks out on orders depending on what you order. Pretty popular bow right now.

    If you can fin an Athens dealer, the Aflixtion is a great shooting longer ATA bow also. 35" I believe.

    Those made the top 2 on my list of Flag ship bows.
    TEAM KILL!!!!!!

    Walk-On Archery National Pro Staff Coordinator

    Hunting Rig:
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  13. #28
    StringPuller#1's Avatar
    StringPuller#1 is offline Senior Member Semi-Hardcore
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    Welcome
    I have a Brute X and it's a great bow. Briefly, I picked up a bow two years ago at 36yrs old and shot my first deer in December. Practice shooting non stop and ask tons of questions.....even ones you may feel are stupid ask anyway. Also watch hunting shows, youtube clips, it all helps you to see deer movement and real life hunt situations. Best of luck to you
    2013 PSE OMEN MAX (Damien)
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    Carbon Express Red 350's 450grain arrows at 311fps......96ish ke of passin thru

  14. #29
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    SP1,

    I have heard from many that the BruteX is much more bow than the money paid for it. I am just still unsure of my exact DL and if it is over 30" the Brute won't work for me, plus it is only 31" ATA which I am not too fond of. As far as the hunting videos, I love watching them. I grew up on National Geographic (vhs w/ the awesome narration) and was impatiently waiting for my next one as a kid. I have seen all the Bowhunt or Die vids and they rule (can't wait for next season's shows). What always makes me laugh a little is how jacked-up they all get after they have just shot. They all are breathing like they just ran 10 blocks and almost (if not) shaking. I know I will not fully understand until I take down my first deer/animal (not into killing wolves and coyotes, as I like canines too much, unless of course in danger from one or many). Which brings me to another question. Do most bowhunters carry a sidearm for that specific purpose? I think I will/would if I can get my permit (NJ is a ***** to get one). Thank you for replying. I love the friendliness of this site, it's fantastic!
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

  15. #30
    Black Shot's Avatar
    Black Shot is offline Junior Member Newb
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    StringnStick,

    I have looked at the Afflixion in passing as I read people's reviews of it and just quickly checked it out. But now that I have really read through its specs and description it does indeed look really (really) good... and the price is very good to boot (predator brown sounds interesting too)! Man, I need to make more money! I want them all! I may have pokemon-itis, not sure

    Update: Apparently, according to Athen's website, Targeteers (which is the closest and best pro-shop near me) sells/carries/can get their bows, but I'm not sure how good they (both Athens and Targeteers) are with updating their distributor lists as, Targeteer's actual website doesn't list them as a carried product. Weird? Guess I'll just have to call and check for myself.
    Last edited by Black Shot; 04-13-2013 at 12:15 PM.
    Regards,
    Black
    "Everything in Ninja."
    Obsession LF2 , CBE Tek Hybrid 5-Pin
    Hamskea Versa Rest, GTE Release

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