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  1. #16
    michael_pearce's Avatar
    michael_pearce is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Did jz just call all of us tools lol
    Personally I could care less as long as out gets people out of the house.
    As far as rifles go they need to keep them put of the mix here there are way to many people that would take completely unsafe shots thinking no big deal if they miss.


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  2. #17
    Dan's Avatar
    Dan
    Dan is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Who is taking anything away from anyone? In WI. there are regulations in place that allow's anyone that want's to hunt in the Archery Deer season can. If you want to use a cross bow you have to be 65 or older. Or get a dissabled permit from a DR. Other wise anyone can bow hunt with a virtical bow. Who's left out?
    Anyone who doesn't have the time to learn how to use or shoot a compound. Why should they not be able to use another type of bow that has the EXACT same limitations as a compound? Sure it doesn't take as much practice, but who cares? Again, it has the EXACT same limitations. I would much rather someone who has little time to shoot be out there with a crossbow than with a compound. I have a brother that doesn't have much time to shoot and I pray every time he goes out that he doesn't get a shot. I would much rather see him out there with a crossbow in his hands. I would have a lot more confidence in him. Why should he not be afforded the same opportunities to hunt the same season?

    WI. now let's Inline Muzzle Stuffers with high powered scopes in the Muzzle Loader season and that just created another Rifle season with them being able to shoot 250 yards accurately and screwed that season up. I won't let it happen to the Archery season without a fight!
    That's an apples to oranges comparison. Again, a crossbow has the EXACT same capabilities and limitations as a compound does. The one and only reason anyone from this great state doesn't want crossbows in the bow season is selfishness, pure selfishness.
    Last edited by Dan; 04-17-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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  3. #18
    Justin's Avatar
    Justin is offline Administrator Grizzled Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by UPbowhunter View Post
    So never saying your opinion with fellow hunters is what we should do?
    By all means, you're entitled to have your opinion just as much as anyone else. I just prefer to base mine on actual facts.

    Im not going on a local newspaper and saying my opinion im saying it with my fellow hunters, just because someone says something that you dont like doesnt make him trying to take something from you.
    Make no mistake - those who seek to put an end to any type of hunting, crossbow or otherwise, aren't searching their local newspapers for information to support their cause. Your support for anti-crossbow legislation, on the Internet or otherwise, gives fuel to those people who are writing their representatives and actively trying to stop people from hunting with crossbows.

    I dont like baiting either! Is that a bad thing? These two things go hand and hand on the public land I hunt. So it was a well writen atricle Justin, with some good facts, I guess we are just either suposed to agree with everything, or never give your opinion on anything. Again if you think im arguing thats fine, im not though. If I was trying to take it away from someone I would probably be going fish and game meetings.
    Again, I believe you're entitled to any opinion you want and I'm not disputing that. If I was, I'd just delete your posts. I'm just trying to point out some of the flaws in your way of thinking. If I can't or don't change your mind, that's okay too.

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  4. #19
    UPbowhunter's Avatar
    UPbowhunter is offline Senior Member Semi-Hardcore
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    Justin, im bullheaded, I still hate Japan, I wont drive anything thats not american, I hate all middle eastern coutries, I dont forget anything. I fear change, and think that we should be doing things that our granfathers did, they had things good. My wife has been on me for years to liten up on my bullheadedness but shes got it wrong. The world needs a few people like me to remember the past. My sons will be like me, and that is that! I disagree with you on this subject for sure! Good day sir im joking.
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  5. #20
    Ruff's Avatar
    Ruff is offline Senior Member Weekend Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    When you start comparing rifles to bows (vertical or cross) you are now comparing apples to oranges. At the end of the day, hunters are tools that are used by the government to manage wildlife populations and generate revenue for the state. That's all.

    There are two different methods for harvesting the number of animals the DNR deems necessary to sustain populations while proving ample opportunities for people to hunt. The long, slow method with lower success rates (archery) or the quick method with high success rates and harvest numbers (firearms). The combined harvest of those two seasons need to fall within a number deemed acceptable by the govenerment, or they haven't done their job.

    Obviously, allowing firearms to be used for 100+ days per year would result in a much greater number of animals harvested considering average success rates. This would adversley effect populations, which in turn effects the amount of future licenses the government can sell and revenue they can make.

    However, allowing crossbows to be used during that same time period has been PROVEN to not have that effect, and therefore I believe it should be legalized.
    How many other states sell 280,000 archery licenses besides WI.? You have proven the point. More hunters = greater harvest. Greater harvest will equal shorter seasons by creating smaller quotas. How many states have a 1buck only regulation that don't sell anywhere near the number of Licenses that WI. does?

    We here in WI. are losing our ability to shoot doe's in quota areas of the state. Something we have been able to do since I started bow hunting in 1971. Why are we losing it. Because gun hunters are saying we kill to many deer and we need to go into the draw for quota doe tags like they have to.

    Define "screwed that season all up" for me.
    The WI. muzzle loader season was ment to be a Primitive Arms season. Technology has surpassed the established season and has become just an extention of the 9 day gun season. Easy isn't always better!

  6. #21
    Ruff's Avatar
    Ruff is offline Senior Member Weekend Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Anyone who doesn't have the time to learn how to use or shoot a compound. Why should they not be able to use another type of bow that has the EXACT same limitations as a compound? Sure it doesn't take as much practice, but who cares? Again, it has the EXACT same limitations. I would much rather someone who has little time to shoot be out there with a crossbow than with a compound. I have a brother that doesn't have much time to shoot and I pray every time he goes out that he doesn't get a shot. I would much rather see him out there with a crossbow in his hands. I would have a lot more confidence in him. Why should he not be afforded the same opportunities to hunt the same season?



    That's an apples to oranges comparison. Again, a crossbow has the EXACT same capabilities and limitations as a compound does. The one and only reason anyone from this great state doesn't want crossbows in the bow season is selfishness, pure selfishness.
    I don't have time to go through all this but a Cross Bow has distinct advantages over a virtical bow. High Powered Scopes, cocked and locked all the time. If a person does not have the time to be proficiant with a weapon perhap's hunting is not for them? We owe it to the animal.

  7. #22
    Dan's Avatar
    Dan
    Dan is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    We here in WI. are losing our ability to shoot doe's in quota areas of the state. Something we have been able to do since I started bow hunting in 1971. Why are we losing it. Because gun hunters are saying we kill to many deer and we need to go into the draw for quota doe tags like they have to.
    Ahhhh yes, the old blame someone else argument. The hunters of this state need to quit pointing fingers at others and look in the mirror and point it at themselves. Yes, the DNR handed out tags like candy, but the hunters filled them. What do you think was going to happen? The population wasn't going to drop? You can't continue to kill deer like we were and expect the population not to drop. What kills me is the guys who are complaining about deer numbers will still fill every doe tag they're given.
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  8. #23
    Dan's Avatar
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    Dan is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruff View Post
    I don't have time to go through all this but a Cross Bow has distinct advantages over a virtical bow. High Powered Scopes, cocked and locked all the time.
    The only advantage they have is they are easier to shoot and set up. Which is great for people who don't have time.

    If a person does not have the time to be proficiant with a weapon perhap's hunting is not for them?
    Who's to decide what's for another person? Because they don't have a lot of time, they can't partake in something they do enjoy when they do have time?

    We owe it to the animal.
    We also owe it to our sportsmen brethren to allow them to enjoy the outdoors as they see fit. Afterall, allowing crossbows won't change a single thing. No matter what the boogey man tells you.
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  9. #24
    SouthDakotaHunter's Avatar
    SouthDakotaHunter is offline Senior Member Die Hard Bowhunter
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    I generally like to refrain from talking the crossbow debate because people often get 'emotional' on the topic and no one ever seems to really change their mind (lets face it, as archers, we've had these conversations with our other hunting buddies 100 times - IMO - people also tend to run in 'packs' with their similar beliefs)....

    JZ - interesting article, obviously your very passionate about allowing crossbows, that's fine - to each their own... You make some good points, some I can reason with, some not as much. For one example, you mention the definition of a weapon.... But at the same time Webster defines an archer as "a person who uses a bow and arrow" . So as far as history and definitions go - I think that could be debated all day...

    1st off, I don't mind anyone that needs to use a crossbow because of age or body using one - perfectly fine and would encourage them to do so. Also, it's not that I don't mind people using crossbows, just prefer that it's not during an archery season. To me one of the hardest points of harvesting a mature animal is drawing on the beast - obviously with a crossbow that's something the hunter doesn't have to deal with. Also not a fan of magnified scopes or red dot type sights mounted like many have. Don't like the fact that you can can shoot a CB off a rest (like from a tree stand - or use your elbows to steady yourself)... For these reasons and others, to say that a crossbow and compound have the same limitations is ludicrous.

    It's not that I'm trying to be selfish, it's just that I believe an archery (or any primitive) season should have certain provisions/restrictions... Kinda like muzzle-loaders - I also don't think muzzle-loader hunters should be allowed to use magnified scopes. Nothing against muzzle loaders - again, I just think that a primitive season should have certain restrictions. Do I care if allowing scopes on muzzle loaders would get more people to apply/hunt - no, I don't. Why don't we just open the deer season from July to March every year - all weapons, so no one gets their feelings hurt.... Obviously not - but its my thoughts people should hunt within the guidelines of the given season or wait for the 'any weapon' season - we're not discriminating because it's the same rules for everyone....

    In my home state and in many others, archery is probably the one outdoor sport that IS seeing increases - number of deer and elk archery applicants in many areas of the country (including many vertical bow only states) has never been higher. So I'm not really buying the argument that we 'need' to do this to get more people involved....

    Personally it wouldn't even bother me to see a tiered season...
    Example: Open Sept 15 for traditional gear only, then allow trad gear and compounds from Oct 20 - Nov 20, then allow Crossbows too from Nov 20 - Dec 1...

    If its legal in your state/area - good for you.. I'm not going to loose sleep or get all pissy about it... I see both sides of the argument, I really do - of course I've got my own thoughts on the subject as most everyone has an opinion - with that I'll stop babbling.... BUT - those are just my 2 cents...
    Last edited by SouthDakotaHunter; 04-17-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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  10. #25
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    Sticknstringarchery is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruff View Post
    I don't have time to go through all this but a Cross Bow has distinct advantages over a virtical bow. High Powered Scopes, cocked and locked all the time. If a person does not have the time to be proficiant with a weapon perhap's hunting is not for them? We owe it to the animal.
    So a crossbow has one bolt ready to go. Not ready to go all the time. Have you ever tried to re-nock a crossbow? Good luck with that. Try cocking that bad boy in a stand while a deer you missed is still in range. Oh and that leads me too yardage judgement. high powered scope or not, you still have to judge the yardage.

    To be honest, I would rather a person be in the stand with a crossbow than that same person who wouldn't be as prepared to shoot a bow be in the stand with a bow.

    I support the use of crossbows as long as it is legal. I do agree that more people should be educated about them and their true capabilities. Maybe even have a class similar to the hunter safety course before acquiring a crossbow license. Heck, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one for a vertical bow for that matter.
    A hunter is not a man who kills animals but, a man who holds immense knowledge, loves, respects and takes great steps in the preservation of the creatures he harvests. He is loyal, grateful, responsible and ethical in every aspect of his chase. He is who I strive every day to be.

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  11. #26
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    Sticknstringarchery is offline Senior Member Grizzled Veteran
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    I keep reading this primitive weapon thing come up but, hasn't the crossbow been around since "primitive days"?? More primitive than an old smoke stick.
    A hunter is not a man who kills animals but, a man who holds immense knowledge, loves, respects and takes great steps in the preservation of the creatures he harvests. He is loyal, grateful, responsible and ethical in every aspect of his chase. He is who I strive every day to be.

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  12. #27
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    D&T Outdoors is offline Senior Member Weekend Warrior
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    If anyone is interested we (Bass and Bucks) are holding a crossbow expo end of July in Wabash, Indiana, several crossbow manufacturers will be there and the IDNR will be there explaining all the new rules for 2012, also the manufacturers will be holding seminars on safety and how to properly use crossbows!

  13. #28
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    Bowhunter_IL_BT is offline Senior Member Weekend Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    If you like bowhunting for what it is to you, then why would you try take that away from someone who wants to hunt with a crossbow? Obviously they like it for what is is to them, but since you don't agree with that you want to limit their abilities to spend time doing something they enjoy?



    Um, actually that's exactly what you're doing. Limiting a person's ability to hunt in a manner in which they want is effectively stopping people from hunting. Arguing that you don't like crossbows and they shouldn't allowed is at it's very nature arguing with fellow hunters.

    Sometimes the misconceptions we have about ourselves and our behaviors are our biggest flaws.



    Crossbows are not what everyone thinks they are. The biggest advantage with one is you don't have to pull the weight and all you have to do is pull the trigger like a gun. They are still very bulky when in a treestand and much heavier to hold than a regular bow. Crossbows do have a lot more poundage than a compound bow, but the bolt of a crossbow is much shorter and lighter. By the time you shoot 40 yards with both pieces of equipment they are pretty close. The compound arrow will more than likely still out perfrom the bolt being that its longer and more stable at longer distances than a crossbow bolt. Within 20 yards no doubt the crossbow shoots harder. There is a big trade off between the two. Up to 40 yards they are about equal for most part.


    My Gf shoots an Excalibur Crossbow and she is legal due to a spinal operation she had. The wild thing about the situation is that regardless of her condition she could not even pull back 40lbs with a regular compound. SO MANY WOMEN WHO CANNOT PULL A BOW BACK DUE TO LACK OF STRENGTH WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPTE IN BOWHUNTING UNLESS THEY HAVE A PHYSICAL IMPAIRMENT. The goal should be to get as many people enjoying shooting and hunting. To me I think Crossbow hunting should be legal for anyone to use IMO. They would be nice to use especially in the late season when bows are tougher to pull back. There is no reason why not legalize them in my eyes. Is making it easier to hurt someone the only logical excuse not to legalize them? To me if I really wanted to I think a regular compound bow still has more stealth in that case. The point is that some politician out there has no clue. If any hunter in IL can hunt with firearms on specific days why not crossbows? When it comes to crossbows all states need to take after OHIO.

    Justin we are still looking to come to the shoot in June !!!!!
    Last edited by Bowhunter_IL_BT; 04-18-2012 at 09:46 AM.

  14. #29
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    The argument behind "high power" optics is slightly ridiculous in that most crossbows have a 1-3x scope, which is far from high power. Secondly you can put the same magnification on your compound bow scope, with lighted and adjustable pins and you're in the same ball game as a scope.

    I'd rather have the public ground I hunt, filled with hunters that are very efficient with a crossbow than questionable with a vertical bow.

    Lets say you have a guy that decides hes going archery hunting a week before the opener. Would you rather have that hunter that has always been a gun hunter go buy a compound one week before archery season and head to the public ground you hunt? or would you rather have that same person go buy a crossbow and head to the woods you hunt? I want the guy with the crossbow, in that scenario... Give him the easiest thing to be proficient with, he's going one way or the other and he has the same right you and I have to hunt. I want him killing stuff dead instead of shooting stuff with a poorly fitted, untuned vertical bow from bass pro that he's had for a week. Sure I'd like the guy to buy one in may and start shooting then, but that's not how people work... And it never will be.
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  15. #30
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    AshAid is offline Senior Member Semi-Hardcore
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    I look at it like this....for me I don't hunt with a gun, i don't hunt Coyotes, Foxes, etc.....and haven't harvested a Doe in several yrs either (which all of the above alot of people do) ...but that's my right, it's legal and it's my choice and decision .....so the Crossbow issue for me is like this..if it's legal and well within the guidelines of your state then by all means enjoy it and go hunt something with it......
    Last edited by AshAid; 04-18-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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